Toward Democracy in Palestine?
TAHERI, AMIR
Toward Democracy in Palestine? Amir Taheri interviews Rawya Rashad Shawa, member from Gaza of the Palestinian National Council EDITOR'S NOTE: A defender of traditional Palestinian positions on...
...The Israelis had always favored Arab leaders of the strongman type...
...In the context of our present politics, there is plenty of room for Hamas...
...Is that a strategy...
...The Israelis say we threaten them...
...There is no guarantee that your home will not be raided at night, or that your water and electricity supplies will not be cut off...
...The first step must be an Israeli military withdrawal from our cities and villages...
...But who is responsible for suicide bombings...
...The main source of Hamas's strength is the weakness of the Palestinian Authority...
...I must ask if you approve of the suicide bombings...
...Look at me...
...Many non-governmental organizations that were active before the Oslo accords have either disappeared or become empty shells...
...Hamas has a clear strategy, where the Authority has none...
...Although much is written about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the outside world knows very little about domestic Palestinian politics...
...But hope is no strategy...
...A former columnist, Shawa was elected from Gaza in 1997 to the Palestinian National Council, where she is a leader of the anti-Arafat bloc...
...Does this mean that Arafat did not consult the Palestinian National Council...
...I think one-third is organized by Hamas and another third by Islamic Jihad...
...I cannot tackle the question in those terms...
...Barak has said that accepting the right of return could produce a "flood" of Palestinian returnees who would change the nature of Israel as a Jewish state...
...This is because the Arab governments with whom he dealt first were also run by men of the same culture of secrecy...
...Obviously, the time frame within which that right is exercised in practice and other modalities for such a major enterprise will have to be worked out through negotiations...
...Amir Taheri interviews Rawya Rashad Shawa, member from Gaza of the Palestinian National Council EDITOR'S NOTE: A defender of traditional Palestinian positions on the conflict with Israel, Rawya Rashad Shawa is also an outspoken advocate of Palestinian reform and democracy...
...I think that by rejecting the plan outright, Arafat acted childishly...
...Yes...
...Yes...
...When a house is on fire, some people may jump out of the window...
...A top European Union official recently told us that the Palestinian Authority is one of the most corrupt governments in the world...
...Can one hold meaningful elections under the present circumstances...
...Year in and year out...
...This is his political culture...
...I am a normal woman, a mother, a politician, and a good-natured individual...
...Nor was the parliament allowed to exercise its right of oversight...
...This is because one man can always be cajoled, bought, or destroyed...
...The view from the outside is one thing, and what we experience each day quite another...
...Change the context, and Hamas will shrink to its natural constituency, which is much smaller...
...Will you run if there is a presidential election...
...The so-called Clinton Plan was a craftier version of the so-called Barak Plan...
...You have not heard the half of it...
...And I am supposed to be a member of a parliament recognized by all parliaments throughout the world...
...While the Israelis are stealing our land, some of our own people are picking our pockets...
...Sure...
...The two-state solution has been accepted, at least in principle, by a majority of our people...
...Arafat would send us [Nabil] Shaath or someone else from time to time to mumble a few meaningless phrases, and to kiss my hand and pay compliments, before disappearing...
...Abu Mazen [Arafat's deputy] was supposed to brief the members of our parliament's political commission...
...Since then, however, that option has virtually disappeared...
...His record is there for all to see...
...Are you not a bit hard on Arafat...
...He wants to be the only one who can install or dismiss a government...
...Next we need a protection force...
...Arafat refused to sign our Basic Law, which means we were run on an ad hoc basis, a nation without a legal framework...
...What about despair...
...The larger issues have to be dealt with in a new parliament and the new government that would emerge from it...
...He has never bothered to consult anyone, insisting on making his decisions alone...
...As I have already mentioned, we accept the two-state formula...
...Much of it was window dressing, designed to confuse the Palestinians and then blame them for not wanting peace...
...I then had to go to Khan Yunus, where I was held up by the Israelis for hours before I could go to Egypt...
...He is always hoping that someone will extricate him from a tight corner, that something good will happen...
...The Authority's obsession with controlling everything has weakened and in some cases destroyed our civil society...
...He is not behaving like that out of ill intentions...
...For three years there was not a single meeting, even for tea...
...What if Arafat and his Fatah group win again...
...We have to agree on the status of East Jerusalem, which is a Palestinian city and must be the capital of a Palestinian state...
...He seems to have had his way for some time...
...Thus it can provide many of the services that are normally provided by the state: schools, social security, health services, and so on...
...Local elections, of course, have been postponed since 1999 for fear that Hamas might win in 400 municipalities...
...What I am saying is that we need a national strategy, not the personal strategy of one man...
...Who knows how many secret bank accounts have grown fatter and fatter...
...No one is safe...
...What I am saying is that this style of rule, this authoritarianism, can lead only to disaster for Arabs, and in our case, for the Palestinians...
...It is a shameful situation...
...Last but not least, there is the question of the right of return...
...All adversaries in history learn from each other and, in some aspects, come to resemble each other...
...In other words, Israel is already committed by law to the right of return...
...Does this mean you have no strategy...
...Let me tell you my own experience of the past few days...
...As for his strategy, it simply does not exist...
...Day in and day out...
...The Israelis, of course, love to go around the world and spread the lie that we want to throw them into the sea, when it is they who are forcing us out of our homes...
...This is another sign of Barak's bad faith...
...After the Madrid Peace Conference in 1991, the Israelis began to feel threatened...
...Yes...
...The image of 4 or 5 million Palestinians suddenly appearing in Israel on the same day is nothing but a propaganda ploy designed to avoid a very serious and vital issue...
...Would any sane person approve...
...At present, however, there is no such possibility because Hamas boycotts general elections, participating only in local elections...
...But we should also see the strengths of their political system in which the government is responsible to the parliament, and the parliament is accountable to the electorate...
...It is too early to tell...
...There is no guarantee that a missile will not kill you in your car or that a demolition squad will not raze your home to the ground...
...A neutral interposition force could protect both of us in the period of the election...
...In order to come to Amman I had to start seeking the necessary Israeli permits two weeks ago...
...For years his message has been: Talk to me and you will not need to take notice of anyone else...
...We were never given a clue...
...Yes...
...Is that the case...
...He is one of those politicians who can operate only in the dark, in secret...
...God is my witness that this is not a personal matter...
...And Arafat was the Palestinian strongman...
...In the struggle between our nation and the Israeli nation it is important for us to be politically as strong as they are...
...And the only way to develop a national strategy is to inform the nation and then ask it to decide...
...They too were suspicious of pluralist politics and preferred to deal with just one man...
...As for the possibility of Hamas winning, my answer is: Why not...
...The entire exercise must be supervised by the United States, the European Union, and the United Nations to make sure there is no cheating and doctoring of the results...
...The main reason is the impression created by Chairman Yasser Arafat that he and he alone embodies the Palestinian political will...
...We have seen people who came with just one shirt a few years ago and are now multi-millionaires...
...He didn't need any advice...
...The fact is that no state can reject the principle of the right of return because it is enshrined in international law and recognized by all states, including Israel...
...Billions of dollars of aid have poured into the Palestinian areas without anyone having a clear idea of where they went...
...Because we cannot have a war machine like theirs does not mean that we should not have their democracy either...
...He cast us in the role of villains and Barak, one of the most unprincipled of Israeli leaders, as a man of peace...
...I am calling for an end to one-man rule...
...No, despair is not a strategy either...
...Of course not...
...Above all, he should have referred the whole thing to our parliament so that we could think together and decide together...
...Would the national strategy that you talk about be based on the so-called Clinton Plan as presented in Taba late in 2000...
...Can the new government have a smooth ride in the parliament...
...This was because the Palestinians had fielded an alternative leadership that consisted of people who had lived and worked in Palestine all their lives, and who could put their case to the outside world, especially to the Americans, in attractive terms...
...You can see foodstuffs donated to us by the European Union sold in Tel Aviv...
...But it still has loads of money...
...If the people so decide, we have to respect their view...
...The parliament never received any report on where the money went...
...Does this mean that if Arafat makes a deal with the Israelis tomorrow you will not accept it...
...It is a miracle that more people are not driven to the edge of desperation...
...Whatever government Arafat concocts will have no authority beyond day-to-day measures...
...We all see the military strength of the Israelis, their F-16s and Apache helicopters...
...That was the age of strongmen in the Arab world...
...That analysis led to the Oslo back channel, when the Israelis put Arafat back in orbit and began making secret deals with him...
...But you cannot drive human beings beyond the context of human life and still hold them to the highest ethical standard...
...He should have adopted a "yes-but" position, accepting the plan in principle but seeking further negotiations on aspects that we could not accept...
...What is the source of Hamas's strength...
...Some conditions must be present before we can have clean and fair elections...
...Of course we have a strategy...
...I am calling for a parliamentary system, not a presidential one, for collective decision-making in constant consultation with the Palestinian people...
...For example, when Arafat signed the Hebron accords [in 1997] we received the information from Azmi Bisharah [an Arab member of the Israeli Knesset...
...In any case what we need is fresh elections, both for the parliament and the president...
...Arafat is forming a new government...
...What if Hamas wins...
...The interview excerpted here was conducted by Amir Taheri, editor of the French quarterly Politique Internationale, in mid-October in Amman, Jordan, and translated from Arabic by Taheri...
...Would such a national strategy be based on the two-states principle...
...From Cairo I had to take a plane to Amman...
...I doubt that he can, provided there is a free and fair campaign in which the people can be informed of the issues and the choices on offer...
...In other words power has reverted to the people, who must now decide in fresh elections...
...In 1972 my late father [Rashad Shawa, former mayor of Gaza] proposed a confederation of Jordan, Palestine, and Israel...
...At any time, an Israeli soldier could have stopped or even arrested me...
...He was Palestine...
...But even I could go absolutely mad under the pressure of occupation...
...There is one way to understand the depths of our misery: Come and live among us for some time...
...Believe me, this is not about personal ambition...
...And that means a strong parliamentary system, accountable to the people...
...We say the Israelis are threatening us...
...He sincerely believes that democracy is nonsense and that great and dedicated leaders like him must lead nations...
...Why is that...
...Arafat never felt the need to come to us and seek support for his secret deals...
...The way to our future is democracy...
...You may disagree with Hamas, but at least you know what it is saying...
...Now that he has signed it under American pressure, he is trying to circumvent it as much as possible...
...Some may push others aside to save themselves...
...What will Arafat campaign on...
...Hamas does not have as much money as the Authority...
...We must also agree on borders and the sharing of waters...
...there are more than a dozen peace plans named after Arab, Israeli, and Western leaders, but none from Palestine...
...This is because the Israeli government had to inform the Israeli parliament...
...The remaining one-third must be regarded as individual acts...
...Hamas speaks clearly, while the Authority has a forked tongue...
...Will that make a difference...
...Arafat asked the previous government to resign because he knew it would receive a no-confidence vote in the parliament...
...Arafat has the same culture of authoritarianism, not to say dictatorship, that has marked almost all Arab leaders for as long as one can remember...
...The council was always used as a rubber stamp...
...What is needed is negotiations on the modalities of achieving that goal with constant reference to key United Nations resolutions, notably 242 and 338...
...I think we need a six-month preparation period...
Vol. 8 • November 2002 • No. 8
