THE PEOPLE'S FORUM
. . . THE PEOPLE'S FORUM . . . Rejoinder From Barnes Dear Sirs: I wish to thank you for printing my long letter on your Russian editorial policy, and even more for your Reply to my letter. I...
...Both of these men have a mind broad and strong for justice and truth...
...Right is right and wrong is wrong...
...May I also add that you are rendering a great service to our country by reminding us of what Abraham Lincoln said in his second^in-augural address, "With malice toward none, etc...
...And, knowing that he is living in a society of international highwaymen, who long plotted his destruction, we can hardly blame Stalin today for not espousing the high ideals of the Society of Friends at Teheran, Yalta, and Potsdam...
...Evidently Mr...
...I have been reading The Progressive ever since the Guardian ceased publication and I can truthfully say, that your policies have never changed since that time from its steadfast opposition to imperialism and dictatorship regardless of nations involved...
...I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me LIBERTY, or ^ive me DEATH...
...For its sanity in defining the relations that should govern the three powers of the world today, it should be placed in the hands of every Senator and Representative in Washington...
...Acts which might be reprehensible in a world governed by high moral standards may be accepted as perfectly natural conduct in a world of aggression...
...Only Fascists and red-baiters would deny it...
...Or with some of your contributors...
...If we had little repression during the War, it was mainly because Pearl Harbor paralyzed our critical senses...
...Indeed, it is becoming all too apparent that it is rather difficult to maintain the government of any great state in our day without an alarming degree of totalitarianism...
...Mrs...
...Irving H. Flamm Chicago, 111...
...So Russia moves its borders to include the Balkans and then there are other states which lie on her very borders and for those to be ruled by someone else would be a menace— so...
...Barnes' defense of totalitarianism in Stalin's Russia seems to me to be quite beside the point...
...It seems to me that Mr...
...Imagine such death and destruction rained intentionally on millions of innocent human beings...
...Harold Lavine Boston, Mass...
...in fact it could not be otherwise for still holding good and true is what was said more than 4 centuries ago by Leonardo Da Vinci: "The truth of things is a perfect food for fine intelligences, but it is not for wandering wits...
...neither would pervert an historical fact...
...If you can't have a mind of your own, you may as well fold up...
...The time seems to have arrived when so-called statesmen who condemn and denounce certain propositions as dangerous, then proceed to vote for them...
...A Little Goebbels' Dear Sirs: Rubin sounds like a little Goebbels in his Reply to Barnes...
...Hitler In Disguise Dear Sirs: The article by Morris H. Rubin in the July 30 issue in answer to Barnes, marks him as one who hates Russia so bitterly that he could be Hitler in disguise...
...Your past editorials are sufficient proof that you have not singled out Russia in your criticisms as charged by Mr...
...Wheeler is one phenomena with which Ripley is not yet familiar—that a man can go forward and backward at the same time, vote for anything and yet be against it...
...We think you're doing a fine job —without agreeing with everything you write by a long shot...
...Fine And True' Dear Sirs: Mr...
...Your Reply made it clear that you did not intend to produce any such effect, which is the main constructive contribution of your admirable answer to my letter...
...Herman C. Esch Cherryvale, Kan...
...Horror Here Dear Sirs: Today a tiny bit of the World War came to New York City when an Army bomber crashed into the Empire State building...
...It was a real Declaration of Independence, but, said the Senator, "/ will vote for it...
...Scott Nearing Jamaica, Vt...
...Rubin's Ivory Tower Dear Sirs: It seems to me that Mr...
...I believe that this Reply was the best piece of writing you have ever done for The Progressive, which is saying a good deal...
...Pardon rae—but isn't that what Hitler was doing...
...F. J. Richards Indianapolis, Ind...
...He writes as a true Christian...
...R. Edgerton Eau Claire, Wis...
...If ft at I said was altogether different : "I don't believe in Russia's totalitarian system any more than I do in any form of dictatorship, but The Progressive has not and does not attack the internal workings of the Soviet Union because we feel strongly that the people of Russia have a right to work out their own destiny without interference from the outside world...
...It would go on indefinitely if "Ma" didn't step in and say, "Now let's face this thing honestly...
...Others, of course, will send notice to "stop my paper" and some, in furious rage, will throw their copy into the fire...
...A True Christian Dear Sirs: Harry Elmer Barnes' letter in the July 30 issue of The Progressive was just fine...
...Better to make Britain change her ways (as she seems now to be doing), than permit Russia to emulate the plundering program of imperial Britain...
...6, you are absolutely right in my opinion...
...Barnes wrote his article to give you an opportunity to answer your critics...
...Those who were in the building and in the vicinity of the crash reported they had been through a horrendous experience...
...Yes, I believe that Mr...
...It is a dollar well spent...
...Stalin to send some advisers to Washington, to show our wooden-headed Senators how to run our country...
...Would that old Bob La Follette were in the Senate when the roll was called...
...I never heard of him...
...She did it, so can I," "Why don't you scold her too?," "It's your own fault," "I'm bigger," "She did it first...
...We surely have made a mess of it the past 20 years...
...What can be said of a U. S. Senator who denounces and condemns this famous and infamous document in a 3-hour speech and then says he will vote for it...
...Oh, of course, in Russia 99 44/100 per cent are all for everything going on there...
...You, in your ivory tower, may hold fast to your perfectionist standards...
...Considering that the people who henceforth come under the Russian sphere of influence will have eco nomic security, why gripe about how much territory she will control...
...My only quarrel with your Reply is my general criticism of all sane and reasonable assailants of Soviet Russia, such as Norman Thomas and yourself, in distinction from renegades and professional sour pusses...
...We can put in a good deal of practice taking the beam out of our own eye before we try to take the mote out of Russia's...
...It's about time I sent a word of praise to The Progressive and Rubin...
...Keep up the good work...
...They do what they have to do to achieve their ultimate goal...
...Shortly after Victor Berger came to Washington, a number of Republicans asked him to explain the Socialist program, following which they told him they all liked him, but if the Socialists tried to put any of the ideas into practice they would be shot the next morning...
...Let the blows fall where they may without fear or favor...
...This victory provides 10 times more promise of "peace in our time" than a hundred fakes like the Atlantic Charter...
...Give the Russians all the chance they want to build their own system within Russia, but let us resist Russian imperialism as fiercely as we do the British variety...
...Even the French Revolution, Which barely scratched the surface of French society and economics and was chiefly a temporary political flurry, had its Reign of Terror, which we now look upon as rather natural for such times and as a small price to pay for the political reforms of the French Revolution...
...There can be no great revolution without totalitarianism, and a totalitarianism which will be of considerable permanence...
...E. T. Becker Mineola, N. Y. Rendering Great Service Dear Sirs: Referring to your article, "What's The Matter With America?," in The Progressive of Aug...
...Barnes does not read The Progressive...
...George Battles Grand Island, Neb...
...I did not, as Mr...
...Coba E. Powers Marshalltown, la...
...Barnes' rejoinder seems, unfortunately, to be hpsed almost entirely on a misunderstanding of a point I made in my Reply of July 30...
...Book On Inflation Dear Sirs: Regarding John Eddy Franklin's letter on inflation in the Aug...
...We might as well understand that a great revolution is no "kid glove" affair and, if we cannot stomach the necessary realities of revolution, we should not favor progress by this method...
...Paul, Minn...
...Victor told me about this himself...
...And I guess we have Churchill whipped or the English have, which is better still...
...Send A Gift Subscription Today...
...Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery...
...Certainly Mr...
...The main danger in your unilateral treatment of Russian policy and practice was that you added fuel to the fire of the Russophobes and Anglomaniaes who have been trying to get a third World War started before we could get our armed forces out of Europe...
...If he keeps this up, his reputation as a fascist leader will be secure...
...But all of that is inconsequential...
...nybody who imagines that a social revolution of the magnitude of the Russian upheaval, faced during both its birth and its fruition by great hostile armed forces, could operate according to the technique and philosophy of George Denney's "Town Meeting of the Air" is just too sweet and unrealistic for this world...
...By the end of that time, that "fine Christian gentleman, Deacon Stalin" may be able to discourage any subsequent plotting along this line...
...Elizabeth Beck Fond du Lac, Wis...
...If she made good again, I would ask Mr...
...They make no claims to perfection in a world so full of imperfection...
...William Henry Chamberlin is one of the bitterest foes of the present Soviet regime that speaks and writes in the U. S. A. Every time you let Chamberlin wallop the Soviet Union, let an equally enthusiastic supporter have the same amount of space to extol...
...Let's have more like them for better understanding between all mankind...
...Who is Rubin...
...Russia, which has made as many mistakes as we probably will if we try even major public ownership, is in about the position of Berger...
...Rubin's article, "Barnes, Russia, and The Progressive," was tops...
...Barnes' point is that in your separate articles on Russia you did not relate Russian policy to the general world situation...
...Rubin on his excellent reply to Harry Elmer Barnes' letter in the July 30 issue of The Progressive criticizing your attitude toward Soviet Russia...
...Those who maintained it were threatened with trial for sedition—just what happened to the most fearless critic of our public policy since 1938—and the American Civil Liberties Union did not dare come to his rescue...
...John J. Spadaro Newark, N. J. Sen...
...the U. S. S. R. Turn and turn about...
...If anybody reads John T. Flynn's As We Go Marching, he is likely to be shocked by the extent to which totalitarianism has attacked us...
...And it is not enough for you to say that your standard of virtue remains unchanged...
...All of which seems to me to reveal a lack of appreciation of what a great social and economic revolution implies, a revolution which had to establish itself in the face of the armed might of all the victorious Allies of 1918, and has had to operate for the last 10 years under the threat of attack by the greatest military power of our time —a threat that became a murderous attack on June 22, 1941...
...Had we all done that in 1939 we would not be today in the war...
...His vote would be "No", if he stood alone...
...To a moralist in an ivory tower, the merchant who fails to disclose that his competitor's product is superior or cheaper is a scoundrel...
...Suggestion Dear Sirs: I read The Progressive regularly...
...I wonder how many of those who escaped injury or death in today's accident had brought home to them the frightfulness of our acts...
...Benjamin C. Marsh Executive Secretary, The People's Lobby Washington, D. C. What Hitler Was Doing Dear Sirs: Congratulations to Morris Rubin on his answer to Harry Elmer Barnes on Russia...
...You hail the general ambitions and framework of the Russian Revolution and its deliverance of the Russian people from the darkness and exploitation of Tsar-dom...
...Pass The Progressive Along Spreading Evil Dear Sirs: I can't imagine how a man like Barnes who claims to be a progressive can say, as he does: "There is evil and injustice in the world—so, we must, see that everybody has a chance to be evil and unjust...
...Barnes in his rejoinder, except as it may appear as an inference in his generous praise of my Reply to him.—M.H.R...
...Rubin Tops Dear Sirs: Mr...
...Stalin's boys can dish it out in their periodicals...
...Now that the Nation and the New Republic are difficult to distinguish from the New Masses, The Progressive has emerged as the nation's outstanding champion of genuine progressivism...
...He seems to be a booster of business, big and little...
...Brilliant Reply' Dear Sirs: Countless American progressives will thank you for your brilliant reply to Harry Elmer Barnes...
...He pointed out in such a convincing way the danger to this Republic if it was ratified—that the Constitution and Bill of Rights would be outlawed and bind this country more firmly than ever in foreign entanglements, that this policy could not and would not prevent war, that spending of billions of dollars of the taxpayers' money to establish a Russian economy would destroy our own and in the end bankrupt America...
...You wish to revive a competitive capitalism—that is futile...
...Note the gloating satisfaction of broadcasters and newspapers when announcing the burning of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and little children...
...As a result she got mail from all kinds of organizations which apparently thought she was a Lady Bountiful...
...V. J. Bruckbauer Sleepy Eye, Minn...
...The principal point of my original article— that the U. S. has a direct obligation to oppose, at conferences, in bargaining, and on the platform and in the press, Soviet foreign pol-" icy when we feel that that policy is imperialistic and war-provoking, is not mentioned by Dr...
...The essence of Barnes.' letter (whether he is aware of it or not) is that you do not follow the party line...
...Palatable Dish Dear Sirs: In publishing the Barnes-Rubin controversy The Progressive served its readers an extraordinarily palatable dish...
...George H. Couch Bryant, Ark...
...Barnes, to the non-foreign policy affairs of the Soviet Union, I can't for the life of me see how that paragraph can be interpreted either as "hailing" the "general ambitions and framework" of the Riissian Revolution, or of "denouncing" the methods and discipline of Stalin in his operation of the internal affairs of Soviet Russia...
...Congratulations on your pro and con letters on Barnes, Russia, and The Progressive...
...Barnes argues like my kids...
...More Like It Bravo...
...Barnes seems to think, "hail the general ambitions and framework of the Russian Revolution [and] then proceed to denounce it for its totalitarianism and severity of discipline...
...Joseph Kaufman Morristown, N. J. * * * Pass The Progressive Along Tops Dear Sirs: Morris H. Rubin's article in the July 30 issue entitled, "Barnes, Russia, and The Progressive," is really tops...
...Mrs...
...B. H. Hendee Chicago, 111...
...Barnes' fair fighting, as Mr...
...Harry Elmer Barnes Cooperstown, N. Y. And The Editor Replies Dr...
...But since when must one agree with everything one reads—except in organs like the Daily Worker whose readers always agree no matter what...
...Since I sailed into Churchill and the Tories in my original letter, I should pay my tribute to the new Labor Government in England...
...Russia cannot change all her policies to more democratic ones, as we regard them, until she has some assurance that she will not be double crossed the way she was in 1939, at which time Britain and France had secret missions in Berlin trying to get Hitler to attack Russia at the same time they had their military missions in Moscow trying to get Stalin to join them, and make amends for their mistakes in Geneva, Spain, and Munich...
...That's why we fought for political recognition and economic credits for the Soviet Union when she needed both so urgently...
...Within the past 4 or 5 months I have been on the point of writing in a protest against the bitter anti-Soviet attitude of the paper...
...Personally I'm getting sick and tired of being told I've got to swallow everything that Joe Stalin and the boys do if I don't want to be called a fascist, a red-baiter, or a Hitlerite, for that matter...
...It seems to me that your Reply should satisfy all reasonable persons relative to the handling of the Russian situation...
...Beams Si Mote Dear Sirs: The discussion on Russia between Harry Elmer Barnes and Morris H. Rubin was highly interesting...
...C. B. Ballard Appleton, Wis...
...After all is said and done, the Soviet Union has performed the considerable service of surviving for almost 28 years in a world dominated by anti-Soviet empires and today the U. S. S. R. is one of the big two world powers...
...Barnes had much the weaker position to defend...
...Russian Imperialism Dear Sirs: Rubin is 100 per cent right...
...Rubin's article, "Barnes, Russia, and The Progressive," was fine and true...
...Rubin did, but I think Mr...
...Barnes is too smart to waste his time and energy actually defending Soviet Russia...
...Since this was the only reference, in my entire article replying to Dr...
...Harold Seybold Rochester, Minn...
...Rubin's reply to Harry Elmer Barnes' complaint evades the real issue raised by Barnes...
...The subject under discussion was certainly germane to world affairs of today...
...Indeed, the majority of the Union became ardent supporters of our current totalitarianism...
...Churchill and the late President Roosevelt...
...Who Is Rubin...
...6 Forum, the answer to all his sleeplessness will be found in a book ($1) published by the International Economic Research Bureau, 76 William St., New York 5, N. Y. The author is William Baxter, with an enviable background of experience, both practical and theoretical...
...It said for us what we have felt for so long...
...Can they take it...
...She expects a gangup on her "tomorrow morning" and is using the same methods to prevent this, which are questionable, because they are so similar to ours...
...Nobody knows better than I do that you have pointed out the weaknesses and evils in American and British policies over the years...
...Challenge them again and again to allow criticism as The Progressive carries here...
...Dear Sirs: Barnes is right about Russia...
...Barnes is entirely justified in his complaint...
...But the Russians are realists...
...The Progressive's support of bourgeois liberalism stamps it as an enemy of the people...
...Many of your subscribers shall want to keep that issue, July 30, for future reference...
...Then, you proceed to denounce it for its totalitarianism and severity of discipline...
...My letter was eminently worthwhile, if for no other reason, in bringing forth your able rejoinder...
...It seems to me that liberals were supposed to be fighting evil and injustice...
...It means that, for 5 years, at least, there will be no official British plotting to involve us in war with Russia...
...Two wrongs never made a right," etc., etc., etc...
...If that constitutes representative government in America, then we have been led astray by the founders of our Republic...
...He cried in words that Americans should heed today as they heeded them then...
...Exterminate the lot of them (including Browder perhaps in a few months...
...Give us more of the same...
...Perhaps if we had experienced a little more of the horrors our militarists are meting out to helpless human beings who have been made artificial enemies by the powers that be (the beneficiaries in one way or,.another of legalized murder) we would be less complacent about the atrocities committed by "Christian" (?) Americans...
...I liked Mr...
...We may not like it, but the Soviet Union seems to have something more than a lead in building the post-empire social order...
...S. L. Mills New York, N. Y. Principles Remain Deai- Sirs: Congratulations to Mr...
...Are we less blamable when we acquiesce in the barbarities of our war lords and our profiteers through war...
...Hurrah For Barnes Hurrah and three cheers for Barnes...
...But in a world of business where caveat emptor sets the moral pace, that merchant's conduct is normal...
...It is true as he says, that The Progressive has published many fine articles excoriating Britain and the U. S. A. for engaging in power politics...
...Harry Elmer Barnes, in the July 30 issue, has done the job much better than I could...
...not helping to spread it, or apologizing for those who do...
...May I quote a part of a speech by the great Patrick Henry of 1776: "Gentlemen may cry Peace, Peace, and there is no peace...
...I've learned a lot from William Henry Chamberlin in past years, agreeing and disagreeing, and the same goes for Barnes...
...Hugh C. Jackson New York, N. Y. * * * Fascist Drool Dear Sir's: Rubin's reply to Barnes was the usual fascist drool...
...D. C. Bond Alhambra, Calif...
...So we excuse Russia for taking over the Balkans, since they lie on her very borders and for them to be ruled by anyone else would be a menace to Russian security...
...D. Bahnsen Watsonville, Calif...
...I would give to the Soviet Union all of China, India, Japan, and the Arabian states...
...He not only sees the splinter in others' eyes, but he sees also the timber in our eyes...
...We blame the German and Japanese people for blindly following the mandates of their war lords and profiteers through war...
...A Mind Of Your Own Dear Sirs: I have just read Barnes' letter and Rubin's answer...
...And nobody should know better than you do that you have rarely mentioned the defects of Anglo-American ideals and practices when discussing Russian offenses of late...
...Burton K. Wheeler on the San Francisco Charter...
...Stalin may have been more ruthless tnan was necessary to meet the Russian domestic and foreign crisis, but it may well be doubted if any other Russian leader could have carried through the Five Year Plans and defeated Germany and still permitted much more liberty and dissent...
...Lamentably Weak' Dear Sirs: As Editor of The Progressive, your "reply" to Barnes was lamentably weak...
...Inflation, then Depression and now War...
...No question about that...
...A Solemn Duty Dear Sirs: The Editor's thoughtful reply to Harry Elmer Barnes shows us on how high a level a debate on a great issue can be conducted...
...This you at The Progressive see better than any other journal...
...What too many Americans have overlooked is the fact that the world has more than 2 alternatives, Fascism or Communism (althought these 2 have the most blatant protagonists), and that Democracy (the middle way) in practice is still a goal worth fighting for at home as well as abroad...
...Under these circumstances, Dr...
...Carl A. Dreves St...
...H. V. Chevillot Detroit, Mich...
...Frank H. Welsh Chicago, Ill...
...Great Britain, as both Barnes and Rubin attest, has committed terrible crimes in her imperialism, but this cant possibly justify our letting Russia do the same...
...If we are to obligate ourselves—as we seem now to have done—to enforce peace in the whole world, we have a solemn duty to make it a just and democratic peace...
...If she made those peoples happier and more prosperous, I would give her Africa, South America, and Australia...
...The Progressive, as you mentioned, has carried a number of leading articles by its staff writers condemning dictatorial and imperialistic policies of Mr...
...We like Ernest Meyer, Coleman, Mayer for the people they are with their faith in mankind, their honesty and integrity—again without agreeing with all of their views...
...If we do not like the Soviet's goal or technique, why not leave off attacking it, put our wits together, lay hold of the needed social tools and improve on it...
...My wife once mentioned this in a letter which you published...
...Like most people, I suppose, we've done our praising with an occasional sub...
...Sen...
...J. T. Potter Baltimore, Md...
...If we do not heed these words of Lincoln, it is my belief that America as we know it today will perish...
...Wheeler And Charter Dear Sirs: I read with great interest and real inspiration the able and masterful speech of my old friend, the distinguished Sen...
Vol. 9 • August 1945 • No. 34
