THE PROGRESSIVE INTERVIEW THE INDIGO GIRLS
Perkinson, Robert
THE PROGRESSIVE INTERVIEW The Indigo Girls 'We like to entertain, but when we're doing political work, we advertise it.' BY ROBERT PERKINSON When Bob Dole and company rant about the "cultural...
...They're not...
...They call it "acoustic folk rock with angst" and say their images have become more crisp and assertive...
...Ray: We keep it pretty separate...
...Q: It seems like you have always made a real effort to help out new artists, to bring new folk singers on tour, especially women from the South...
...In recent years, the Indigo Girls' ethereal lyrics and rich harmonies have taken a more "plugged-in" and politicized turn...
...Ray: On a national level, we've tried to highlight a small number of issues—winnable issues, which are easy to explain to the press and the public...
...We started out early in our career with environmental causes, doing a lot of Greenpeace benefits...
...How the audience felt, we can only judge by what we saw...
...There's no doubt about that...
...It's an organizing piece...
...I know I've gotten an education about indigenous issues, and I've given one about gay rights...
...Beyond that, it's fun...
...Saliers: No, that hasn't been a problem...
...Q: Have you had to struggle with being portrayed as New Agers, being accused of appropriating Native cultures...
...The communities were so warm and welcoming to us...
...When we signed, the record company knew we were gay...
...But in my heart, idealistically, I believe the best power comes from local communities...
...Groups with power should seek to have ' representation from all disenfranchised groups—gays, Indians,1 women...
...Q: How do you think the progressive movement as a whole ought to incorporate Native-American issues...
...Ray: I mean, sometimes people in the audience have misread our intentions...
...Ray: We also came across artists on these tours who influenced our writing...
...Q: What do you hope to accomplish with the Honor CD you've just released...
...And we've never made any bones about it...
...Saliers: There's a lot of oppression in their communities, just like ours...
...We don't shove it down people's throats...
...What was that like...
...Those issues have been really buried in a lot of Native communities...
...Saliers: It's also who we're being influenced by musically at the time...
...So people are afraid...
...That was important to us, and to all our lesbian friends who were there to support us...
...Ray: You can look at our music and see that we've become more assertive...
...Our images are cleaner and more specific...
...We forget what we're thankful for...
...So it's not our main thrust, but we're living it...
...I think it's important for people to feel empowered in their local communities...
...Q: Is it contradictory trying to launch a national effort on behalf of grassroots, local environmentalists...
...I guess it was a point of departure...
...In 1995, they completed the twenty-one-stop "Honor the Earth" tour, which raised some $250,000 for grassroots Native-American activists and generated thousands of letters to public officials...
...I don't think we're all the same just because we're gay...
...Ray: For me it's become really important to immerse the gay politics into the other work we're doing...
...Q: So will your regular tour for this new album not have such a strong political component...
...I listen to Rage Against the Machine all the time now...
...Last year we concentrated mostly on the West...
...I'm not so sure about the focus on sexuality...
...We don't have a problem with that...
...Saliers: For us the impact of that tour was so profound that I can't even articulate it...
...It was more than a show, and that was really gratifying...
...And making offerings reminds you to be thankful for all the gifts...
...This summer they produced a benefit CD, titled Honor, which includes new tracks by Bonnie Raitt, Bruce Cockburn, John Trudell, Soul Asylum, and the Indigo Girls themselves...
...But it's hard to break into it...
...Saliers: But it's something the whole country is struggling with—national versus local politics...
...Wow, you're being really political now...
...We're raising money to give to the indigenous movement...
...So this is one way to help in that process...
...We also wrote together for the first time, the song "Blood Quantum" on the Honor CD...
...My spirituality is less nature-based than Amy's...
...Before warming up for the show, the Indigo Girls took off the afternoon to talk...
...Currently they are recording their eighth album with Epic Records and are planning another, larger benefit tour for indigenous environmentalism next summer...
...But we and the people we work with have a specific purpose...
...Q: Have you started making more connections with indigenous communities in the Southeast now...
...So much of the movement in different Native communities is to promote and sustain the culture, which includes the arts...
...It was easy because we were united in the experience...
...When we did Buffy Sainte-Marie's "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee," 1 loved plaving that song...
...On those gigs you had music, political speakers, a slide show...
...If you're thankful, you do it...
...So when I came back I didn't want to forget about gay rights...
...Saliers: I guess I've been writing more politically...
...But while many recording and film personalities are armchair liberals, it is rare for entertainment stars to become dedicated progressive activists...
...And when your images become more specific, they become more graphic...
...It's a balance...
...I just wanted to hear the songs...
...Ray: But we have...
...People came backstage, saying they had learned from it, that they were excited, that they were taking the knowledge into their lives...
...Saliers: Yeah...
...Saliers: But I have a lot of problems with the gay movement...
...They're not diluted...
...They were more intensely spiritual shows...
...In North America, the relationship between politics and culture is weird...
...That's clear...
...Ray: But we don't want to take it out of the grassroots realm into the "rock-star" realm...
...Then the organizations can really represent who they're : fighting for...
...Amy Ray: We've always been political...
...everyone knew where their money was going...
...For all faiths, the Earth is our physical place in the universe...
...I also have an independent production company where most of the employees are gay...
...And if anybody had a problem with it, they didn't have to be involved...
...I've been reading Howard Zinn's The People's History of the United States, and it's reminded me that we're all fighting the same thing...
...So there's a lot to learn about the different communities and their struggles...
...They have played more than 1,200 shows in the United States and around the world, received five Grammy nominations, and sold more than six million records in the United States alone...
...But others don't...
...Not that our politics aren't part of everything we do and our organization...
...Q; When I listen to your album 1,200 Curfews, which includes live recordings from concerts over the years, it seems like vour music has become harder, more raw...
...That's when we got more involved...
...Some of those people can't feed themselves sometimes, so it was really moving to see that kind of giving...
...Q: Has becoming more politically involved affected your music...
...Clinton's Salvage Rider, which allows more logging on Native old-growth forests, is a good example...
...Q: Have you been criticized for not making sexual politics a higher priority...
...We need to fight against all the things that colonialism brought to us—patriarchy, Manifest Destiny, the Church and its intolerance, and greed...
...But on tour, everyone made a real point to include gay issues...
...So it's a cultural exchange...
...When we're doing political work, we advertise it that way...
...Ray: Politics affects everything in your life...
...So we're not completely away from it...
...the indigenous environmental movement was really important because its approach was more down our alley, because it was very grassroots and winning a lot of battles...
...But people have a choice: Go to the table or not...
...Q: There has always been a religious or spiritual component to your music, with songs like "Land of Canaan," "Hey Jesus," and "Galileo...
...Why is that...
...They had to, because just about everyone we brought on tour was gay...
...We felt it was important and effective...
...Ray: Personally, I've always had trouble with Christianity...
...It's also confidence and belter song-writing...
...It's got information about how to join the Honor the Earth campaign, about some of the issues, with statistics about environmental destruction on indigenous lands...
...Of course, there's always the danger of removing federal protections, especially in conservative states...
...Music is such a good way to resist...
...Saliers: I remember seeing a show by an artist who had become extremely political when I was really young, and I felt sort of resentful...
...It was like, "Do this, make an offering of tobacco...
...That was a big part of what they talked about, the unity of disenfranchised groups, how more and more people are being shoved out...
...Q: How was the Honor the Earth tour different...
...It's going to be a tour with bigger venues this time so we can raise more money...
...You know, I struggle with Christianity, but I go to a church service...
...It was almost absurd [laughs...
...I've always been more nature-oriented...
...I think people can take the goodness of the message and philosophy of Native spirituality and remember it in their own traditions...
...We're out...
...So for me, the prayers we had before tour events and the spiritual gathering we went to were really nurturing...
...We give money to AIDS research...
...It's the beauty of cultural exchange, the excitement of finding musicians you weren't aware of and then doing shows together...
...It was part of a wide effort to keep New England states from contracting with Hydro-Quebec, which was building the James Bay hydroelectric project mostly on Native lands...
...So I came home feeling like I was going to miss having a community to pray with...
...We're not outside agitators trying to tell them what to do...
...Saliers: First of all, people have to find out what's going on...
...It's a sacred gift...
...People here are like...
...We don't say to people that they necessarily have a responsibility to be political, but it shouldn't be so unusual...
...On the album we're recording now, I wrote a song that talks about government repression—the FBI, CIA, phone tapping, infiltration...
...So we're trying to have a national outlook in a grassroots way, which is difficult, I guess...
...Because I think we need to take a holistic approach...
...Is introducing your audience to Native artists a new priority...
...We're gay, and we live that way...
...On the Navajo reservation, one elder and activist told us a story about the spiritual role of gay people in his community...
...People can send postcards right out of the CD urging President Clinton to repeal the Salvage Rider...
...We went into pretty poor communities, but they had feasts for us...
...It seemed like a good idea to move from just fund-raising to having some cultural involvement with each other...
...When we first started doing environmental work, we were both interested in indigenous issues, but in the Southeast the information wasn't readily available...
...It's such a big deal...
...They had a deeper impact...
...Ray: Yes...
...People are also fighting so hard just for sustenance that I would say gay rights is lower on the list of priorities...
...It keeps you strong, it has dignity...
...The problem is that through colonization and industrialization we've forgotten that...
...Throughout, they have maintained an intense connection to their audience...
...We also set up tables in the venues so people have a choice...
...I mean, the word "spiritual" has become a cliche now, but that's what it felt like...
...But for me, a show where we just play for fun and everyone has a good time has as much merit...
...We've always been prettv political in our lives, but I've become more aware of how to control my money, how to tap into resources that go along with mv values...
...Saliers: It was great...
...We do Gay Pride in Atlanta...
...A lot of homophobia...
...Q: Do you think it's hard to reach people politically when thev just come to be entertained...
...I caught up with Saliers and Ray recently in New York City, where they were playing a benefit dinner for the Honor the Earth campaign, the joint project of several indigenous environmental organizations...
...Sometimes I get tired of playing acoustic guitar...
...I mean environmental organizations that don't have indigenous people on the boards—that's ridiculous...
...If you're down in South or Central America, art is a tool of resistance...
...Saliers: For me the experience has been a beautiful bridge to my own beliefs...
...I've been thinking about what it feels like to have the government in your life all the time...
...On another level, there is a lot of music on there that people haven't been exposed to in our peer group...
...Since arriving on the Southern alternative and folk scene in Athens, Georgia, eleven years ago, the Indigo Girls have enjoyed a remarkably successful career...
...And they were so great down there about including gay people in the discourse...
...On this tour, you prayed for everything...
...Has working with Native people changed your sense of spirituality...
...It affects the writing, your approach to business...
...The show is the show...
...Part of it is that procreation becomes really important for communities that are downtrodden and have such small populations...
...They think we need to go to sweatlodges every night and become Indians...
...I didn't really know Winona LaDuke [the co-chair of the Indigenous Women's Network] or other Native activists at that time who were working against James Bay...
...Since 1991, the Indigo Girls have increasingly turned their energies toward political activism...
...Ray: A few things...
...That's politics and rock and roll, the marriage...
...more angst-ridden maybe...
...And then we're trying to raise money...
...You might choose different studios, a different engineer...
...I mean it's not the main thing we do, but we've spoken out a lot...
...We're all disenfranchised—gays, indigenous peoples...
...Ray: Yeah, it's not real calculated...
...Q: You also stopped at Pine Ridge and other reservation communities...
...Then, in 1991, we took part in a show in New York City, "Ban the Dam Jam...
...On the other hand, all the money raised goes into a grant foundation that helps regional and local environmental organizations...
...We sang at the gay-rights march in D.C...
...The Honor the Earth tour was advertised very specifically as a benefit...
...But everything becomes so institutionalized, and we forget why we're praying...
...Everything became a ritual, everything was thanked properly and given the value it deserved...
...And then we have benefits like these...
...We got more than we gave...
...We're recording a new album, and will probably go out in mid or late summer...
...But we have shows that are for entertainment, even though we have political songs in them...
...Q: Has there been a political give and take with the Native activists you're working with...
...Ray: They also fed us...
...There are political-action cards to get public pressure going right now...
...This is something Native activists can teach the country as a whole...
...Ray: I've always thought large organizations should include indigenous people on their boards and editorial staffs...
...Neruda, almost any person you can think of—their art is so political...
...Emily Saliers: We'll be doing more of that on the next Honor the Earth benefit tour...
...But it becomes second nature...
...And I sense that in progressive Christian churches there's going to be a return to environmental concerns...
...Along with Jane Siberry, Bruce Cockburn, and Toad the Wet Sprocket, we've got Native-American artists like Joy Harjo and Poetic Justice, Ulali, and John Trudell...
...All of the money goes into the campaign...
...So that's a definite influence of politics and the Honor the Earth tour on my writing...
...There's a freedom in rocking out...
...Maybe they've influenced my willingness to be more direct...
...I mean there's nothing wrong with the ideal of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and other major religions...
...Ray: Well, the money isn't benefit money on a regular tour...
...But we have tables at all our shows—gun control, gay rights...
...We won't only be in the realm of indigenous environmental work...
...do this, make an offering of tobacco...
...A long time ago, I wrote some songs that were blatantly political, but not too many...
...Two exceptions are Emily Saliers and Amy Ray of the Indigo Girls, who have been touring, fundraising, and speaking out on behalf of grassroots Native-American environmentalists for the last several years...
...THE PROGRESSIVE INTERVIEW The Indigo Girls 'We like to entertain, but when we're doing political work, we advertise it.' BY ROBERT PERKINSON When Bob Dole and company rant about the "cultural elite," they make the entertainment industry sound like a bastion of leftwing subversion...
...Greenpeace is great because they do...
...I think some people make the mistake of thinking all Indians and all Indian issues are the same...
...I also went to the Zapatista conference about globalization and NAFTA in Mexico this summer...
...Emily and I felt that Robert Perkinson is a writer in New Haven, Connecticut...
...I think it's just as important as anything else...
...There's something really renewing there...
...I talked to her at an Earth Day event later, and we decided to put our resources together...
...So they seem more aggressive...
...Saliers: No, we like to entertain...
...Q: How did you become so involved in Native-American and environmental politics...
Vol. 60 • December 1996 • No. 12
