Ron Carey
Koeppel, Barbara
THE PROGRESSIVE INTERVIEW Ron Carey BY BARBARA KOEPPEL Today, when the balance of power between labor and management has never been more skewed, what the International Brotherhood of Teamsters...
...Carey: You have to go back to the corporate interests, in this case, the insurance companies...
...Carey: I haven't personally contacted them...
...And this Contract with America is another big farce...
...Look at their agenda, how much money they threw at the issue...
...Q: Don't you also need to get the labor establishment on board...
...And we have to be concerned with their interests, as well...
...The key is for us to be independent from both political parties, so we can make decisions that are right, say, about health care, instead of making concessions before you know if the darned thing will be approved...
...It's no secret I'm not satisfied with a lot of what's happening there...
...The fifty-five-year-old former truck driver and long-shot candidate spearheaded a reform movement and won, beating his closest rival by 60,000 votes...
...Three years ago, Ron Carey, a UPS local president from Queens, was sworn in as president of the Teamsters...
...So, instead of NAFTA, let's make a trade agreement that's fair...
...Q: So is labor impotent...
...Carey: If labor is weak, it's because of the corporate agenda: unfortunately, they set the agenda in this government, as always...
...Local unions get out there and talk to legislators, and build campaigns with rallies and phone banking, anything to get the message out...
...Carey: First, you have to look at what happened...
...Q: Why not...
...That's what it's about...
...In fact, while former presidents had pulled multiple salaries totaling up to $750,000, Carey cut his from $225,000 to $150,000...
...It has to have clout and a voice...
...American workers are being dragged down and someone has to begin waking people up...
...If we don't, workers who now make over $10 an hour will soon be making $6 or $8...
...Now we have to change this...
...But because he did not win by a majority, and because his opponents were and are still deeply entrenched, Carey has to do battle within as well as outside the union...
...So we are going to hold rallies and demonstrations, do phone banking...
...They just take our money and support, and then many vote the way they damn please and try to justify their actions afterwards...
...They were angry about not getting a good health-care plan...
...One of the biggest issues is you can't even get a first contract...
...So is anything different now, for labor...
...And we've eliminated them...
...But we're going to challenge the Republicans on their Contract with America: About 500 Teamsters came to Washington on January 18, some who'd never been here before, talking to their representatives about jobs and health care...
...Not in all locals, but in lots...
...For example, when we demonstrated at the Statue of Liberty during the freight strike, lots of people were there from the archdiocese in Queens and Manhattan, and many Protestant groups, too...
...They're expensive, and I hear Teamster finances are not in great shape...
...Q: Who will make up the coalition...
...Q: The next Teamster election is in the fall of 1996...
...Some of these people don't care how they destroy me, even if it means destroying the union...
...People talk about reinventing government and creating jobs, and nothing's ever delivered...
...Carey: There shouldn't be any debate: $5 an hour doesn't even cover inflation...
...And most of the unions didn't join you...
...Q: What's your strategy for dealing with foreign competition from Mexico and elsewhere...
...Carey: If I run, absolutely...
...The fact is, this government— just like others—is being run by corporate special interests...
...How does Joe Blow's shop somewhere in this country compete with a shop in Mexico when those folks make $2-to-$3 a day...
...Carey: Like we did with NAFTA: We reached out to lots of different groups that had common goals...
...From 1979 to 1990, the Teamsters lost 400,000...
...Q: Are strikes effective...
...The idea was to let people know what we were fighting for, because jobs are being downgraded all over...
...But for those who were out there actively supporting NAFTA and didn't promote a ban on striker replacement—we didn't back them...
...For god's sake, you can't even organize in Mexico...
...Since I took office, we've slowed the drop...
...But last year, we got it down to 17,000 because we also picked up quite a few...
...We may back members from either party, or even a third party...
...And finally, the Administration produced a terrible scheme...
...For example, Kennedy supported NAFTA, but he really has fought for working people, too...
...As a result, we and the UFCW won a good contract...
...That's how hell-bent they are, since they've never gotten over losing the election, and they started from day one...
...Have a strike and a corporate campaign...
...It has to be independent of the legislators...
...Q: Let's talk about the Teamsters...
...We have to make sure our voice is heard and show all working people—not just Teamsters—that this is about them...
...It's ridiculous...
...Let's help get them health benefits and bring their wages up, and then they can buy things—some from us...
...Q: How much of your budget goes for organizing...
...If you look at the big fights about working people, we haven't lost them all, and we haven't won them all...
...Even where we win elections, companies just ignore it...
...Carey: I haven't decided...
...A few locals did on their own because we can't tell them what to do...
...RON CAREY: I don't think the change in Congress matters one bit...
...Carey: What I find so interesting about the bailout is that, besides being a black hole, it's all about the needs of corporations...
...In the first six months, he eliminated a special pension plan that gave an extra $5 million to twenty-two international union executives, sold off the two jets and a white stretch limo ordered for his predecessor, Jackie Presser, and set up an ethical-practices committee to investigate corruption and wrongdoing...
...That's the kind of effort we need to fine-tune and build even more...
...And guess what...
...Carey: We use corporate campaigns, and these are pretty effective...
...In the past, groups operated on their own for their own special interests and never thought about others...
...Carey: Of course, and we have to do even more, because this is the union's lifeline...
...The idea was to set a standard, and we did...
...Carey: You're right...
...Q: But we all know that strikes often don't work...
...workers displaced by jobs that went overseas...
...Q: First, let's talk politics...
...That's why it wasn't put to a vote—because there was a good chance it would have been defeated...
...So what else do you do...
...We can't afford to go back to the past...
...THE PROGRESSIVE INTERVIEW Ron Carey BY BARBARA KOEPPEL Today, when the balance of power between labor and management has never been more skewed, what the International Brotherhood of Teamsters does—as the largest union in the AFL-CIO—echoes far beyond the halls of the white marble palace that sits across the street from the Capitol...
...And this got a lot of attention...
...With Fisher Scientific in New Jersey, which is a medical-supply company, the warehouse workers were on strike for two months because Fisher wanted to raise their health-insurance premiums...
...We've lost ground all over...
...But since I put locals into trusteeship at the first hint of corruption, there are now over forty, even in high-profile areas like Chicago and New York...
...Q: Are the members with you...
...Carey: We're trying to get the members involved in all aspects of collective bargaining...
...Right now I want to stay focused on the issues I got elected for.* Barbara Koeppel is a freelance writer in Washington, D. C...
...The question is, do members believe them...
...Q: These issues have been around a long time...
...And we've won some important battles...
...If you make a concession, you've already signaled your position...
...Because even if labor is weak, it still speaks for quite a few million people...
...So we have to try to change that...
...The guy will soon be out of business...
...In the end, most of the workers got their jobs back...
...Carey: There's no way we can compete with wages in places like Mexico...
...Labor has to rebuild itself right now.' Q: Now let s talk about health care...
...And it's nonsense that it will put employers out of business...
...Then, when the company fired them and replaced them with new workers, we took the story to the public and the company's customers, telling them what Fisher had done to workers who'd been there a long time...
...And that's what we've done...
...Carey: When I took office, there were only two or three trusteeships...
...Q: Are you trying to organize...
...They won...
...So, to discredit us, if we're in an organizing campaign, they put out negative literature...
...Instead, we need to build them up...
...Obviously, there has to be some redirecting over there...
...One of the things I asked Ron Brown, the Secretary of Commerce, and Mickey Cantor, the U.S...
...Also, we've reformed the grievance procedures...
...Absolutely none...
...Q: How do you feel about the $20 billion bailout Clinton delivered to Mexico...
...Carey: Yes—although there are still a lot of Teamster officials who are trying to return the union to what it was...
...Instead, it provided multiple salaries and all kinds of luxuries to the staff...
...Q: Can you count on any of the international unions...
...The purpose is jobs, health care, and other critical issues...
...And it wasn't just a matter of Republicans or Democrats...
...I traveled around, meeting people in shopping centers, everywhere I could—to talk with union and non-union people about the issues...
...We can't turn on the television or radio or pick up a newspaper without hearing about the evils of welfare, angry white males, Republican landslides, and the new freshman class in Congress...
...Q: But isn't there a lot about the labor establishment that needs to be changed...
...For example, the "big-four" freight companies wanted to turn full-time jobs into part-time ones and take away benefits...
...So with all this generosity, I'd like to know how much has been offered to U.S...
...You supported the single-payer concept, but it didn't see the light of day...
...The only way to win these fights is if we're a majority...
...Carey: Critics keep calling it prehistoric and obsolete...
...Q: What's your membership now...
...Carey: Labor has to rebuild itself right now...
...In this case, it was aimed at Merrill Lynch, which owns part of Borg Warner, which owns Pony Express...
...Q: How are you democratizing the union...
...Q: How do you build them...
...You hear about the window of opportunity, and I asked how this opportunity brings wages up...
...If you look at the progress we've made, it isn't all we'd like it to be, but it's still the only voice working people have...
...Carey: A lot of it is voluntary...
...People were just angry about a President who talked about good jobs and never delivered...
...Carey: Because the point is not to challenge the AFL-CIO...
...That's a major problem and they'll continue to do that...
...People were angry, like about NAFTA: They were angry about Congress not stopping companies from replacing workers who are on strike...
...Q: Is it like some say, that when things get so bad, that's the time you could make the most difference...
...How can you compare wages of $2-to-$3 a day with what workers earn in this country...
...So how in the world can there be fair competition...
...Does our government think the American people are ignorant...
...Carey: About $20 million...
...So we have to do more, and I'll do my best to get them as enthusiastic as I can about building a base...
...They didn't want to see health-care reform...
...Without that, we're back where we started...
...Trade Representative, was, "How do we compete...
...And a lot of union officers have joined our team...
...But that's not the purpose...
...So what changes have you made that you're most pleased about...
...Carey: First, you have to look at the waste and the royal approach that was in this union before—like $15 million each year for extra layers of union bureaucrats at what were called "area conferences" that provided few services to the members...
...Q: Do you have the money to launch these campaigns...
...Three years before that, the Justice Department had placed the union into trusteeship for corruption...
...Everyone knows the answer is good jobs with decent benefits—and none of that has been on Clinton's agenda...
...But it's hard, because the right to organize is challenged every single day...
...So, with the members' help, we launched a national campaign during contract negotiations, and instead of just picketing work sites, we held lots of rallies in major cities or staged them at places like the Statue of Liberty...
...And with the ban on striker replacement, we also did pretty well, even though we didn't get the job done...
...What counts is whether they support fairness for working people...
...Will you win...
...When you came in three years ago, you obviously had won an amazing battle...
...What we learned is we'll never be able to motivate a President or Congress unless we have a grassroots movement...
...It's to take care of corporations...
...We won't eliminate crime, immigration problems, or welfare unless we have good jobs...
...Q: What about corruption...
...Carey: The fact is, it isn't just to target Washington...
...Then look at the Congress, which also tried to complicate it...
...But strategies differ in each case...
...And I didn't get an answer...
...Corporations don't permit fair elections, and create all sorts of delays...
...And it has to talk about issues...
...Here in America, we can't even get the right to strike or decent health care...
...But you also have to make some judgments...
...Labor has to build coalitions all around the country that can fight for good jobs, health care, fairness on striker replacement, and the right to organize...
...And if we hadn't been out there organizing in the last few years, we'd be down even more...
...Carey: They can be...
...Q: What do you do about it...
...They didn't want to see a ban on permanently replacing strikers...
...Is it still alive and well...
...Q: What's your reaction to the current debate about raising the minimum wage...
...Soft-spoken and straightforward, Carey becomes animated when he launches into themes that propel him—fashioning a health-care system that covers everyone, fostering a democratic union, forming coalitions, and above all, finding a powerful voice for labor that can demand a fair shake for working people...
...How do you reach the majority of the people who didn't vote in November because they were turned off...
...Carey: Working people, environmental groups, consumer and religious groups...
...It's not exactly easy...
...Carey: We're working on that...
...In the end, we didn't win, but we built a hell of a coalition and put up a good fight...
...Now these are handled in the open, not in back rooms...
...I've given them some idea of what we intend to do, and we'll open opportunities for them to get on board, but I don't want to look like someone who is challenging the AFL-CIO...
...We even got doctors, nurses, and scientists to put pressure on city councils and campaigned on some college campuses...
...I bet you could put it on the head of a pin...
...We came eighteen votes short in the House...
...It's not about working people...
...Q: So how do you reach the people who are taken in by all the rhetoric, who are responding to all the mean-spirited attacks— against immigrants and the poor—that could have terrible effects...
...This country is pretty much run by corporate interests...
...But with the old guard still entrenched out in the districts, it was not going to be easy...
...But we didn't stop fighting for single payer, and we were very frustrated with some of the other labor people who ran in the other direction...
...But the bottom line is we've held them accountable...
...People were angry—they're still angry—and this time, the Democrats paid the price...
...That points out how important it is for labor to not be so tied to the White House and the Democratic Party...
...So people just stayed home...
...Once we eliminate corruption, locals are released from the trusteeships and have elections...
...The year before I came in, we lost 40,000...
...We can't get a fair shake on organizing...
...The fact is, if you look at the votes on some recent contracts, they don't...
...Carey: 1,430,000...
...They look at the members' money as their own cash register...
...And guess what...
...They use every legal maneuver...
...But they hung in there for almost three months...
...So I don't see that last election as any landslide, like you keep hearing...
...Carey: As we did with Pony Express...
...They're not talking about a real increase...
...The key is to change the union from the inside out, change the by-laws, get members involved, have stewards elected—basically give the union back to the members...
...We had a strike in Oregon, along with the UFCW, at the Fred Meyer grocery chain...
...That was a major breakthrough, and not just for Teamsters...
...It's incredible...
...Q: Might you not...
...So we have to hold them accountable, and we did in this last election...
...This is significant, since I wasn't elected by the officers, but by the rank and file...
...They have to be selective and well planned, and we don't just pull everyone out...
...And the downsizing that's taking place is huge...
...Not one person crossed the picket line and remember, our members don't have strike benefits...
...Q: So what's your strategy...
...I'm not putting down Mexican workers...
...Legislators don't listen to labor...
Vol. 59 • April 1995 • No. 4
