ALL-OUT HALF-WAY
Wechsler, James A.
all-out/half-way by JAMES A. WECHSLER (The following exclusive interview with Senator Arbuthnot, often described as the model moderate of the middle, occurred on March 1. It took place amid...
...But if that happened, Senator, what would be left to negotiate...
...Senator, is there any evidence that the South Vietnamese know much of what is being said or written here...
...Would you favor much wider American action, in terms of manpower as well as air attack...
...JAMES A. WECHSLER is editor of the editorial page of The New York Post...
...There are times when it is preferable, as Winston Churchill said, to 'jaw-jaw rather than war-war.' On the other hand, I am opposed to negotiations from a position of weakness...
...Senator, there are some who say that refusal to negotiate on our part may unify the discordant elements in the Communist world...
...Do you see any evidence that the people of South Vietnam feel as strongly about defending themselves as did the people of Prague...
...That may seem to be the appearance of things...
...I believe everything must be done to prevent it...
...Well, I was not in Prague at the time of that crisis so many years ago, and I have not been in South Vietnam...
...Secretary of Defense McNamara recently estimated that if the United States and Russia became involved in all-out nuclear war over Vietnam or some other crisis, 140,000,000 Americans and 100,000,000 Russians would die...
...I think we must honor our commitment to the people of South Vietnam...
...We must continuously try to educate them on this point...
...I remain to be convinced...
...Then you feel we can do pretty much as we please now without any concern about Chinese intervention...
...Senator, I would gather that you generally endorse President Johnson's handling of the crisis...
...Then you do not see any basis for negotiation in the foreseeable future...
...He thought it would be about only 100,000,000 on each side...
...I think that result would be most unfortunate...
...I cannot offer an informed judgment myself, but that was his opinion...
...Well, I would not like to engage in public controversy with any of my fellow Senators, and with such distinguished newspapers as The New York Times...
...all-out/half-way by JAMES A. WECHSLER (The following exclusive interview with Senator Arbuthnot, often described as the model moderate of the middle, occurred on March 1. It took place amid widespread reports of moves in London, Paris, and Moscow to initiate discussion looking toward a negotiated settlement of the Vietnam war...
...Aren't you saying that the side that seems to be winning the war should surrender before any talks begin...
...To what voices do you refer, Senator...
...He made clear that his opinions might be subject to change by future events...
...Have you considered that problem...
...That is precisely why I am troubled by all this emphasis on negotiation...
...On the other hand, I have been told by other officials that Mr...
...But perhaps things will have to get worse before they get better...
...I cannot answer that categorically because I would need access to the reports of our intelligence agents concerning the present situation in China...
...Among his books are "The Age of Suspicion" and "Reflections of an Angry Mid-dle-Aged Editor...
...Well, certainly, up to this point...
...Most unfortunate...
...But I am certainly opposed to the large-scale investment of the blood of the flower of our youth in an Asiatic conflict...
...I think it is premature, or, perhaps I should say, belated...
...But if he were, on the one hand, to negotiate a Munich-type surrender or, on the other, to get a lot of American boys involved in an Asiatic war, I might be obliged to revise my opinion...
...In this, as in all questions, it is a matter of degree...
...Could you elaborate on your views on this point...
...One Air Force general—I cannot of course reveal his name—has told me that he doubts that more Americans would be killed than Russians...
...I would not arbitrarily say that the Chinese would be unresponsive if we were to bomb their atomic installations...
...But as I have told you in the past, I will not be convinced of such a split in the absence of open hostilities between Moscow and Peking...
...Senator, some of your colleagues claim that many poor South Vietnamese peasants don't really view this as a struggle for their own freedom because they don't see any sign that their governments have been concerned with their welfare...
...Doesn't that suggest there are at least real differences toward the danger of escalation in Vietnam...
...But there have been at least two coups in South Vietnam, Senator, since we increased our reprisals against North Vietnam...
...I admit that there have been discouraging reports...
...Those fellows have to develop more teamwork...
...It may also be that the people of South Vietnam lack the perspective to see the historic nature of their cause...
...Do you see any sign, Senator, that our position is increasing in strength in view of the instability of the Saigon government and the apparent apathy of many of the South Vietnamese people...
...One final question, Senator...
...They might well consider that, in the Oriental phrase, a matter of face...
...I am sure they engage in such theft...
...Now, young man, I think I have made my position on that very clear...
...McNamara's estimate may be somewhat high...
...Young man, I have often expressed my skepticism about these so-called disputes among the Communists...
...Do you feel this should affect our approach toward negotiations...
...Well, young man, I do not possess a crystal ball, but I do not see how any negotiations could take place until the North Vietnamese halt their aggression and the Vietcong stop their guerrilla activity...
...But I am sure you are aware that a certain tone of defeatism has been encouraged by some things said here...
...Thank you, Senator Arbuthnot...
...Then you would oppose any steps that might seem likely to involve us in direct conflict with China...
...Well, of course, as I have suggested, it is understandably difficult for illiterate peasants to appreciate their vital role in history...
...Senator, you have been quoted as saying that you are disturbed by reports that behind-the-scenes efforts are being made to negotiate a settlement in Vietnam...
...But if they keep getting worse, Senator, won't our negotiating position be even weaker...
...Isn't it also true, Senator, that while we have concentrated on the aid being given the Vietcong by North Vietnam, most observers agree that the Vietcong are arming themselves by taking arms from the South Vietnamese —just as the Chinese Communists did on the mainland...
...On the other hand, I am sure that they are heartened when we display our strength and unity...
...It is a familiar Communist trick...
...Senator, you referred to Munich...
...That I could not determine...
...Certainly I view the prospect of nuclear conflict with abhorrence...
...I do not know if I would be prone to state the situation so dogmatically...
...There can be no doubt of that...
...Do you share that concern...
...But Senator, the Chinese Communists recently publicly denounced the Russians for sponsoring negotiations in Vietnam...
...Perhaps that is because they have become confused by the disagreements among their own leaders, and, if I may say so, by certain voices of confusion and appeasement in our own country...
...Then, Senator, you would be opposed to the bombing of those installations...
...But I am confident that they will gradually see the light...
...Well, I have never, as you know, been opposed to negotiation in principle...
...On the other hand, I think we must always bear in mind that the Chinese Communists will soon have the hydrogen bomb, and that this may be the time when they are least prepared to risk any form of showdown with us...
...But the enemy must also be aware that the United States is still the greatest power on earth, and that we have so far thrown only a very small amount of our strength into this struggle...
...I would welcome proof that this is true...
Vol. 29 • April 1965 • No. 4
