TURKEY STROGANOFF AND CHINA'S BOMB
Allen, Steve
Turkey Stroganoff and China's Bomb by STEVE ALLEN William F. Buckley's recent column—one syndicated, alas, in far more newspapers than will ever carry reference to my response—suggesting that I...
...Is Mr...
...Buckley put too much wine in the Turkey Stroganoff...
...How could you guarantee that there would be no injury to humans...
...My own participation in the peace movement is motivated simply by a desire to keep men from killing each other, the same desire, of course, that makes millions of people uneasy about the existence of nuclear weapons...
...Since everyone at the family board agrees with him he must—if he is to be sustained by the heady wine of controversy— either bestir himself or else invite to the Buckley home such itinerant liberals as myself...
...embarrass the Administration rather than an instance of responsible policy-planning...
...He has always been amusing because of his refreshing and somehow winning arrogance...
...Certainly, all men of good will in the West, and probably the majority in the Communist camp, too, would sleep better if the Chinese were not developing a nuclear armory, or if they accidentally blew up the one they are now building...
...It was at this point in the conversation, as I recall, that I first began to get the impression that my hosts were entirely serious about what I had assumed was one of those how-many-angels-can-dance propositions, of the sort that so intrigue and divert the Buckleys...
...The advantages of keeping the Chinese out of the nuclear club by this means are obvious enough, while the disadvantages are not quite so readily apparent...
...Buckley—could wholeheartedly endorse the attack plan...
...Whether such an argument is justified is utterly irrelevant...
...Buckley evidently assumed that I would "approve a nuclear strike by our Strategic Air Command" against China...
...I therefore said: "If by any chance you were serious about the matter, I assume you can appreciate that the one thing you absolutely ought not to do is publish a formal call for such a course of action, for by public revelation of the idea you bring at least two things to pass...
...Buckley, then, telling a bald lie of the sort for which Robert Welch of the John Birch Society is so infamous...
...you would whisper it in the ear of Senator Dodd or submit it to your contacts in the Pentagon...
...Buckley: How important is that consideration...
...Namely, that he would join me in approving a nuclear strike by our Strategic Air Command against the nuclear installations in Red China which have recently ground out an atomic bomb...
...I would, however, have gone much further to assure that my point of view be rendered more fully, and I would also have insisted upon a much more detailed consideration of the drawbacks of the Buckley proposal...
...Would we be worse off with more information...
...Or did all of this start because the attractive Mrs...
...And what of those non-Communist scientists who have been forced to go along with their government's plans...
...Allen: Except for the two-hour warning announcement...
...Allen: I consider it more important than I believe you do...
...Buckley said: "You say that if the attack were made without nuclear weapons, you would feel that the possibility has certain attractions...
...Allen: Precisely, which is why the idea, at least considered as an intellectual exercise, has definite attractions...
...during Thanksgiving week, I was transfixed—between forkfuls of wine-spiced Turkey Stroganoff — by Bill Buckley's question: What would I think of destroying Communist China's nuclear capability if no loss of life were involved...
...Buckley: May I quote you...
...I was naive enough to think that the quotation would be by word-of-mouth, but had it been made clear that publication was involved, I would not have answered differently...
...I answered: "With the addition of that factor the proposition becomes decidedly less worth considering...
...Responding to such an invitation STEVE ALLEN, actor and television star, is a vice chairman of the National Committee for a Sane Nuclear Policy (SANE...
...I wonder...
...Two—Mr...
...Buckley seems to feel that the Russians would not be quite so dismayed as their subsequent public statements might seek to suggest...
...Of course, we're playing a complicated game here...
...It would seem reasonable to assume that such an attack would render it impossible, in our lifetime, to ever develop a rapprochement with the Chinese...
...The Chinese might decide to stay and attempt a defense...
...From the broad smiles that greeted this observation, I tentatively concluded that the Buckleys were, indeed, not serious about their proposal...
...Allen: Of course the Chinese might have their own ideas as to what would constitute an appropriate response...
...I put to Allen a week ago a concrete proposal, and was gratified to have an answer which he gave me permission to publish...
...Goldwater has spent the past few years criticizing practically everything done by the Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson Administrations in the context of the cold war...
...Buckley and I did indeed have a conversation about this matter—a conversation about which it is clear there needs to be a fuller report...
...So far as I am aware there has been no change in my general position except in the sense of the growing sophistication and increased familiarity with detail that normally comes with long study of such complex issues...
...Is it wise to found policy upon ignorance...
...Certainly we could punish them fearfully from the air, but I know of no responsible American military figure who would feel anything but horror at the prospect of an American infantry invasion of the Chinese mainland...
...His natural air of superiority—that quality so cherished by H. L. Mencken—is such that I presume it bars him forever from elective office, if that is any comfort to liberals dismayed at the entry of other rightist entertainers into the political arena...
...Have we attempted to promote it...
...Buckley: (After a moment's reflection and a brief consultation with his brother Jim) No...
...Buckley: There would be no necessity to declare war...
...Since the publication of this remarkable pronouncement I have been receiving letters from two groups: (1) fellow peace-workers who suspect that I have taken leave of my senses...
...The first reaction that crossed my mind was the phrase: Why not?—a query which, whether it was ill-advised in this instance or not, I think we all ought to form the habit of asking ourselves daily, since we might otherwise tend to become immobilized in the concrete of our assumptions and prejudices...
...Allen: Certainly...
...Allen: Are you talking about a nuclear attack...
...His graceful prose seems very quill-pen and his practical policy suggestions often have an air of romantic desperation about them...
...Whether such an individualist among Individualists actually exists, one is certainly entitled to wonder, if not doubt...
...If there is anyone of the National Review camp who thinks the United States ought not to bomb Chinese nuclear weapons installations, let him speak now or forever hold his peace...
...somebody ask the former Senator...
...Buckley, on the other hand, seems to me truly a man born in the wrong time...
...There may be a bigger story here than Mr...
...he puts on such a good show...
...But several far more fascinating questions now suggest themselves: One—Since the National Review group (Buckley, L. Brent Bozell, James Burnham, Russell Kirk, Frank S. Meyer, Ernest Van den Haag, et al) is—or was—Senator Goldwater's brain trust, would the Senator have advanced this dramatic proposal had he been elected Commander-in-Chief of all United States armed forces...
...I see him in a flowing silk shirt, brandishing a rapier, gallantly defending an about-to-be-deposed monarch of another era...
...Only retired admirals and generals seem to find such madness appealing...
...Is it possible that the bomb-China idea is only one of a full bag of venturesome projects that might have been undertaken in the event of a conservative victory, such as, for example, National Review's repeated suggestions that we invade Cuba and break down the Berlin Wall...
...If you were in earnest about this," I continued, "you would not advance your proposal in the pages of National Review...
...Assume the attack were made with non-nuclear weapons...
...He is the author of "Mark It and Strike It," an autobiography, and he contributed to two other books, "God and the H Bomb" and Dialogues in Americanism...
...Besides the problem of world opinion, there arise such questions as whether a declaration of war would be involved...
...Buckley's proposal, it seems to me, are of the sort that only secondarily relate to matters purely nuclear...
...Buckley said next: "Now what if the attack were nuclear...
...Not at all...
...Have we the right to kill them...
...First of all, the attack would come as a surprise...
...These are only a few of many considerations that would have to be taken into account before anyone—even such a foreign policy romanticist as Mr...
...Short of opening full-scale hostilities against them, there is perhaps not a great deal that we could do by way of retaliation...
...Goldwater...
...But even the let-Chiang-do-it gambit would have results and the possibilities must be laced...
...Buckley in part because he is an entertaining fellow...
...For the benefit of those readers who might not have seen Mr...
...Lastly, the propaganda value to the Red Chinese of a nuclear attack upon their territory would be enorjnous...
...Buckley: (Somewhat cryptically) It would...
...Even considering the Buckley proposal as pure game-theory, a far superior means of achieving the destruction of Peking's H-bomb potential—if such a course were agreed upon—would be to entrust the bomb-run—one made with non-nuclear weapons—not to our Strategic Air Command but rather to Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalist Chinese air force based on Taiwan...
...Buckley: Not necessarily...
...Buckley's flair for the drama plus his plutocratic elan makes him, in a sense, a far more romantic and classically tragic representation of The Conservative than the aiv-shucks Mr...
...The Buckleys, like the Kennedys and other well-educated families, are given to dinnertime conversation that deals with matters more weighty than changing hemlines, gossip about the private lives of movie stars, and the latest sports scores...
...I do perceive, however, problems, such as the great hue-and-cry that would go up from many other nations, not all of them Communist by any means...
...The point is it would be enormously attractive to Asian ears...
...Moderation on the part of China's leaders is certainly something we would welcome...
...By the way, I find myself suddenly wondering if this possibility would appeal to Chiang Kai-shek...
...First, you give the Communist Chinese a warning that would provide them with ample opportunity to develop counter-threats and arguments, thus almost certainly rendering your chess move impossible...
...Second, we have no way of knowing what the Soviet response would be...
...Peking would almost certainly retaliate by some form of aggression against Formosa...
...Should we not now also encourage attempts to include China in disarmament negotiations...
...One can easily envisage their approach: "The Americans—who have previously attacked Asian soil with atomic weapons—are at it again...
...Buckley, to initiate a public debate designed to lead the rest of us to the very conclusion "to which I have just referred, which would involve our turning over the reins of responsibility to Chiang for an important attack upon the Chinese mainland...
...I deserve—as it happens—neither the blame nor the praise I am receiving...
...But we do not know...
...Buckley anticipated...
...Third, we have no way of knowing what the effect might be upon the war in Vietnam, which is already disastrous enough...
...In reply, I wish to make clear first of all that those who now find themselves seriously concerned with my views on foreign policy may find them expressed at considerable length in three books I have written...
...Allen: Yes...
...As President, therefore, he would have had to come up with alternatives that were off the beaten track...
...We're talking about this one act only: destroying the Chinese nuclear capability...
...Buckley: Yes, but above and beyond that we wouldn't be contemplating a war...
...And even our heavy air attacks would succeed largely in killing the innocent, non-Communist Chinese millions that we piously claim to be interested in liberating, not incinerating...
...There was more to our conversation...
...Such an attack might succeed in driving the Chinese and the Russians back into each other's arms, a circumstance which would clearly be to our disadvantage...
...Buckley's subsequent publication in his nationally syndicated column and in National Review of the proposal itself, as well as an account of our dinner-table discussion of it, I take as tending to confirm my assumption that the whole thing was an intellectual exercise, a playing with game-theory meant to cause mischief and Allen on Buckley A number of my liberal, Democratic, and Republican friends pro-fess puzzlement as to how William F. Buckley and I can remain personally on the most cordial of terms while disagreeing on so many philosophical specifics...
...Their attitude toward us is already frequently harsh, but such an attack would replace contempt or envy with pure hatred and would presumably close forever pathways that might have led to some sort of coming-to-terms short of war...
...If this happens, our formal obligation to defend Chiang would force us into a battle that could easily turn into World War III...
...and (2) right-wingers who congratulate me for having, as they suppose, come around to their nuclear point of view, whatever that might be...
...It has long seemed to me that the combination of Mr...
...Turkey Stroganoff and China's Bomb by STEVE ALLEN William F. Buckley's recent column—one syndicated, alas, in far more newspapers than will ever carry reference to my response—suggesting that I stand shoulder-to-shoulder with him in recommending an immediate nuclear attack by our Strategic Air Command against Communist China's nuclear installations, has stirred up a great deal of comment, as well it should...
...The Chinese, to vent the anger caused by loss of face, might decide to humiliate us in Vietnam...
...Their puzzlement—it seems reasonable to assume—is no greater than that of those conservatives and/or reactionaries whose affection for me is considerably less than is that of Mr...
...Now some conservatives might suppose that the bomb-run proposition was purely a Buckley family matter, for which, therefore, the conservative camp in general ought not to be held accountable...
...Buckley's column—and who might therefore have acquired a distorted impression of its content—I quote from its key paragraph on my position: "I was recently in conversation with Steve Allen...
...Second, in the unlikely case that the Johnson Administration might have sympathetically entertained your notion—had it been dropped, so to speak, in the State Department's suggestion box—you would, by publication of your idea, be flying in the face of the natural and strong reluctance of a ruling party to base important policy upon suggestions from the opposition...
...Before undertaking such startling moves it would seem the better part of wisdom to explore the possibilities of a greater effort by the United States, Great Britain, and the 106 other signatories of the nuclear test ban agreement to bring France and China to an acceptance of its provisions...
...They so enjoy stimulating debate, indeed, that I sometimes suspect it is largely the fact that they have achieved a somewhat numbing family consensus that has driven Bill out into the cold, liberal world to argue his sometimes archaic but never boring propositions...
...Even Clare Boothe Luce says we should give China food...
...There are indeed grave dangers attending such a resort to violence...
...Fortunately, neither Mr...
...When it was later claimed by the Senator's opponents that he had recommended or approved such use of atomic weapons, he heatedly denied that this was the case, explaining that he had merely meant to refer to a possibility, the virtues of which were at least worth exploring...
...They are the only nation ever to use these weapons and their repeated resort to their use puts the lie to their claims to peaceful intentions...
...But what would you say to our making a magnanimous gesture coincidental with the attack—for example, offering to send to the Chinese mainland several shiploads of American grain, as a gift, to make it clear to the world that our actions were truly intended to benefit the Chinese people and to establish that we had no designs on Chinese territory...
...To the best of my recollection the conversation immediately thereafter went somewhat as follows: Buckley: Let's assume we would give two hours' warning so that it would be clear we were interested only in destroying equipment, not people...
...Allen: Well, then, I consider the idea an interesting one that I find myself approaching by way of the question: Why not...
...Mr...
...This, of course, does not establish that they will invariably be ill-advised but it may, nevertheless, help to put his foreign policy recommendations into improved perspective...
...My admittedly awkward position in regard to this matter is rather like that of Barry Goldwater who, in discussing various suggestions that had been made for dealing with the problem posed by Vietcong supply routes in Vietnam, said "Defoliation of the forests by low-yield atomic weapons could well be done...
...To do that would suggest that there is something un-virtuous about the original act itself . . . and that we ought not to concede...
...so, it may come as a shock to some conservatives to discover, does Chiang Kai-shek, a bit of news for which I am indebted to Mr...
...If no loss of life is involved, and if 'clean' bombs that cause practically no radiation damage were employed—assuming such a thing were possible—then I would have to advance reasons why, in the absence of damage to humans, a nuclear weapon is any worse than a non-nuclear weapon...
...The main complications of Mr...
...I can offer no such approval...
...I admire Mr...
...Never mind what I think about this...
...Or—if one wanted to be terribly James Bondish—one might ask: Is it possible that Chiang, in his inscrutable though still leashed wisdom, might have created this idea himself and commissioned his China Lobby friend, Mr...
...For one thing we have, as I have earlier suggested, no way of knowing —really predicting—what the Chinese response would be...
...Buckley, so it shouldn't be a total loss...
...On the basis of this casual pass at problem-solving, Mr...
...I, for one, do not see what good it does us to prevent our journalists from visiting the interior of China...
...Buckley nor I are candidates for office, and therefore my carelessness in this discussion, which I frankly concede, may be interpreted as a phenomenon common enough among policy theorists whose imaginations roam freely—precisely because they carry no responsibility of the sort that so rightly inhibits those whose word may become flesh...
...Buckley: And such an attack would destroy—or prevent the construction of —additional nuclear weapons, would it not...
...Contrary to the point of Vice President Hubert Humphrey's joke about the Arizona Senator's making a movie for 18th Century Fox, Goldwater is truly a 20th Century type, the King of Kiwanis, the likable, somewhat bumbling Babbitt who, though he entertains a number of 1928-ish notions, is nevertheless one-of-the-boys of our age...
...After accepting another helping of Stroganoff, I said, "Well, whatever the merits or drawbacks of your proposition—to deal with reality for a moment—I can't imagine its ever being carried out...
Vol. 29 • February 1965 • No. 2
