THE POLITICS OF NUCLEAR TESTING
The Politics of Nuclear Testing An interview with Dr. Ralph E. Lapp This television interview, ignored by the press, throws revealing light on the political versus scientific background of...
...I think the President has spoken out on this subject but I think we have to speak out very clearly...
...Agronsky: Yes...
...Hans Bethe of Cornell—and where did he make it...
...So I believe that the pressure upon the President to renew nuclear testing has been enormous...
...Agronsky: Dr...
...Bethe correctly, the arguments he gives do not support the resumption of nuclear testing...
...Lapp: Right...
...And if the enemy gets that notion, then he may want to strike first, too...
...For example, Dr...
...Martin...
...In the past you spent so many billions of dollars for national defense and, you say, you'll get proportionally more security...
...Now we are getting into a situation where if you get too great a striking force— and there is such a thing as too great a force—you may convince the enemy that you're not going to retaliate but in fact may want to strike first...
...John Chancellor: In all the discussions of President Kennedy's decision to resume nuclear testing in the atmosphere, one of the very important things to understand is why these tests are technically necessary...
...Agronsky: Well, you are contending that they are not necessary for national security and that this is a political decision, if I read you right...
...Many opponents of the nuclear test ban have claimed that it is vital to start testing again in order to develop a warhead for an anti-missile, but this is incorrect...
...I would make two points...
...Chancellor: You've been dealing a great deal with some of the political and some of the strategic overtones of this decision, but what about the technicalities involved in Dr...
...Chancellor: No, I haven't, and I meant to ask that—as long as you brought it up—that is a speech made by Dr...
...He told us something about this...
...Agronsky: Well, granted the pressure has been enormous, are you saying then, that the President, in setting forth the reasons that he did for resuming nuclear testing // we do not get an effective nuclear test ban agreement with the Soviet Union, did not set lorth accurately the reasons lor the resumption...
...Lapp: I believe it is...
...Bethe of this problem, and, if I read Dr...
...Bethe holds to his original conclusions...
...Bethe says we need not resume nuclear testing for purposes of national security...
...John Chancellor and Martin Agronsky, who conducted the interview, are staff commentators for the National Broadcasting Company on whose "Today" show the program was broadcast.—The Editors...
...Bethe—and I'm quoting from him...
...Let me just read this: "In the final analysis, to effectively deter a would-be aggressor, we should maintain our armed forces in such a way and with such an understanding that, should it ever become obvious that an attack upon us or our allies is imminent, we can launch an attack before the aggressor has hit either us or our allies...
...and to analyze these reasons and other aspects of the situation, we have asked the noted atomic scientist and adviser on these questions, Dr...
...There is the concept here that because the Russians do something, we have to do it, too, that their military operation is the same as our military operation and, believe me, if the Russian objective is to strike first, they have to have a different kind of arsenal than we do, because to wipe out our hardened ICBM sites, they have to have large warheads to be able to strike at these...
...I've not seen that reported, myself...
...Is that true...
...Chancellor: When did he make it, Dr...
...missiles in the ground...
...Ralph Lapp, to come to Washington and talk with us and with Martin Agronsky...
...Khrushchev would read, "Official Government Publication of the Congress"—it seems to me that the Congress makes national policy...
...So I believe, you see, there is a question here which is different from anything we have confronted in the past...
...Agronsky: I would also point out that that is an alternative, it is not a recommendation—it is one thing that we should be in readiness to do...
...For example— Agronsky: He was appointed by the government to make this evaluation of the Russians' weapons tests...
...This is an element of deterrence which the United States should not deny itself...
...Lapp: Well, this is the Congressional report, Defense—Department of Defense appropriations, 1961, and I find that this is not quite the same...
...No other form of deterrence can be fully relied upon...
...I might— Agronsky: That, however, is not national policy—this is— Lapp: Well, as Mr...
...Now that's a pretty strong statement and I think there is something of a contradiction between what is being said technically and what is being said politically...
...Bethe's speech...
...Lapp: Well, Martin, I think there is another point...
...Bethe, in his analysis, says: "It seems to me entirely safe to reduce this striking force to a few hundred missiles...
...Ralph E. Lapp This television interview, ignored by the press, throws revealing light on the political versus scientific background of President Kennedy's decision to resume nuclear testing in the atmosphere if the Soviets do not soon consent to a test ban agreement with inspection and enforcement features...
...Chancellor: Now, we were also told that the evaluation of the last series of Russian tests was concluded, by the government at least, if not by Dr...
...He said that "there is also no problem about providing suitable atomic warheads for anti-missiles...
...I think the word deterrent is the key to this whole problem, because you see we must analyze whether or not we are building a missile force capable of retaliating in response to a Soviet attack upon us, or whether we are building a force which is capable of carrying out a first strike on the Soviet Union...
...Lapp: Well, might I first of all say, that the President took the very bold step in discussing this problem candidly with the American people...
...Lapp: He made the speech early this year...
...But the point was made that these tests were necessary in the interests of our national security, in order that we have a continuing, effective, and credible deterrent...
...Ralph Lapp, a distinguished American physicist, was assistant director of the Argonne National Laboratory, co?isulting scientist to the Bikini Bomb Test of 1946, scientific adviser to the War Department General Staff, executive director of the Research and Development Board, head of the Nuclear Physics Bureau of the Office of Naval Research, and consulting physicist to the Nuclear Science Seivice...
...Lapp: I do not think that these tests are necessary in the framework that you ask that question...
...First of all, Dr...
...A lot of us had heard that the Russians had made considerable progress in studying the possibility of an anti-ICBM and the inference was that our series of tests might do the same thing...
...Bethe, in February...
...Lapp: Well, again I am going back to the man who evaluated these tests —Dr...
...Lapp: That is correct...
...Would you like to begin...
...And the second point I would make is this: that the President began Operation Candor...
...Chancellor: And this speech was made— Lapp: This speech was made in January, but I understand that Dr...
...Have you, John...
...We have never spoken of a first strike force—it's not national policy...
...Lapp: If I read this speech correctly, that is what he says...
...How can he say that and everyone ignore it...
...Lapp, just very quickly, do you feel that tests are necessary—technically, strategically, militarily, in the [interests of] national security, as the President has contended...
...Hans Bethe, professor of physics at Cornell, was in charge of the panel evaluating this, and I have in front of me a lengthy analysis by Dr...
...We have suitable warheads" and now understand the conclusion, "Still, I believe that an effective anti-ICBM" defense, I'll put that in, "is not possible...
...Whether or not thev are necessary as a political decision, that's another question, but from a technical viewpoint, I do not think that these tests affect the balance of power between the Soviet Union and the United States...
...Chancellor: Gee, that's fascinating...
...In my opinion, that is, it is a political decision—1 think a fairly easy political decision, too, because you see I think nuclear tests have become power symbols in this age of power politics...
...Agronsky: There is a tremendous contradiction...
...Lapp: That is correct...
...Lapp: Right...
...Lapp: He made it at the—Cornell University...
...Chancellor: Well, Martin, I think perhaps we'll be hearing more about this— Agronsky: I should think we would —extraordinary, vociferous response of a minority of one, and it goes completely contradictory to government policy...
...Now this is in contrast to the preparation for thousands of missiles...
...Agronsky: Well, certainly we have contended all the way through that our basic policy is that of massive nuclear retaliation...
Vol. 26 • May 1962 • No. 5
