How Sadat Sees Israel

...It is a reflection of Sadat's historical perspective that he considers his Christmas visit to Israel a breakthrough because Prime Minister Men-ahem Begin had readv a plan for withdrawal from the Israeli-occupied territories, although the ground rules called onlv for a discussion of general principles "Maybe this passed without people realizing its importance and seriousness," Sadat says in the interview "But it was the first time since the establishment of the State of Israel that the Jews presented something specific "The Jews had always completely avoided this because it meant there would be counterproposals and other viewpoints They were very anxious to render everything in an ambiguous way so that it would have no beginning or end nor a head or a tail, and that way we would sink in a darkness in a long night which would have no dawn However, this time they went farther than one could have imagined They came to argue with us This is in itself a positive step Making a point others might heed too, Sadat cautions his countrymen "The nature of negotiations will be for them to disagree among themselves and for us to disagree with their government We must wait without fear, otherwise we would be like the rejectionist children, who were afraid of mv visit to Jerusalem and are still Sidney Coffin Lippman, a previous NL contributor, is based in Cairo fearful lest the Egyptian and Arab cause be lost " Since Egypt is run with little overt dissent, Sadat describes the difference in Israel, where "there are very difficult and extremely complicated political conditions, and any leader needs to maneuver and wage fierce battles The Israelis have small and numerous political and religious blocs as well as political-religious blocs All of these must be convinced together And everything must be discussed They are not easily reassured about anything that is said on the official level " "Moreover," Sadat says, "there are very sharp differences over the existence of the State of Israel itself There are religious bodies who think the establishment of Israel in its present form was a sin, that defending it is a sin and that the Israeli Army is a sin The biggest disagreement among the Jews (until the peace negotiations) has been that there is not one single accepted definition to enlighten us as to who is a Jew " To illustrate the workings of Israeli politics, Sadat allows himself a small joke he heard from Israeli Defense Minister Ezer Weizman "When three Jews meet and differ, that means they have formed four political parties and five religious ones " Sadat observes that the nature of Israeli society "imposes on the country political, parliamentary and party requirements that are completely different from ours " Asked whether he thought Begin had changed from his days as leader of the Irgun Zvei Leumi terrorist organization, Sadat replies "We have all worked underground on behalf of our countries and also against the British This kind of person has special qualities and traits I have studied Begin thoroughly learned his good and bad points, his strengths and weaknesses When I saw him in Jerusalem and sat with him, I realized he is a man who truly wants peace, he is a strong man in his country and can convince the people of his decision That, in my view, is sufficient for me to sit down with him" Sadat makes it clear that he is aware of the "black stigmas" left from Begin's terrorist days Surprisingly, he attempts to defuse the resentment against the Irgun's 1948 massacre of several hundred Arabs in the village of Deir Yassin, a name that has become the highly-charged symbol in Arab minds of the struggle with the Zionists "If Begin committed the Deir Yassin massacre, in the October War we committed greater massacres and avenged what took place in Deir Yassin and in the 1967 defeat Indeed, we put an end to a whole generation Jewish historians and military men still talk about the profoundness of the disaster that befell them m October 1973 It was alarming considering Israel's population If the Jews were to do the same thing m Egypt and in the same proportion, they would kill a quarter of a million soldiers We avenged our dishonor and everything is past We must seek another method besides war to solve our problems Otherwise, massacres between us will not end What happened is enough Let us seek a new, civilized method to establish peace " Before meeting Israeli Foreign Mimster Moshe Dayan in Jerusalem, Sadat says, "I knew that he was one of the hawks Yet the strange thing is that Dayan was flexible during the talks in Ismai-ha As a matter of fact, whenever there was disagreement, he used to request that consideration of the matter be deferred until later on "As for Weizman, Sadat admits his original assessment of him as a warmongering wildman was incorrect In Jerusalem, he found the Defense Minister "a real gentleman and witty [He] was a pilot m the British Army during World War II, and spent two years in Egypt Weizman is now disgruntled with political life He wishes he could leave it and take up commerce His wit hides a real tragedy His son was seriously wounded on the Bar Lev Line in the October War and was near death How can a man like this not want peace7 There is a bereaved mother and father in every Israeli home No parent likes to lose a son No wife or child would like to lose a husband or father " Turning from Israel's leaders to its people, Sadat contrasts their lives with the Egyptians' Begin and he "discussed the problem of food security, the right of every man to be free from hunger and thirst," Sadat notes But that is not a problem in Israel, he continues, "life itself is their problem We take life for granted In Israel, nobody knows if he will be alive or dead the next day "They have another complex, the complex of 'Masada,' that fortress their forefathers defended [against the Romans] until death They do not want Israel to be another Masada, a land to defend until they become extinct That is why they fortify themselves behind Bar Lev Lines, aggression, trickery, and abstention from discussions and negotiations They hope the Arabs will fail to achieve agreement on anything so that Israel can keep its military forces on Arab land The Israelis wish never to fight within their borders, just like the United States " To fully understand the Israeli mentality, according to Sadat, Arabs must realize that the "Jews have been existing in fear for thousands of years Living in ghettos and exposed to massacres and persecutions, they secluded themselves in their own religion, customs and traditions to protect themselves Jews feel that the whole world is their enemy When they established Israel, the imagination became a reality and fear became a certainty They were strangers in a strange land, surrounded by millions of hostile Arabs "Thus when I told them that they were safe, and acknowledged their legitimate presence among us, that turned their convictions upside down," Sadat concludes "The Jewish people lived for thousands of years without anyone pledging their security They never before had been called legitimate by an enemy who wanted to be at peace with them...

...REPORT ON AN INTERVIEW How Sadat Sees Israel BY SYDNEY COFFIN LIPPMAN Cairo Here as in Jerusalem, public rhetoric seems to control the fluctuating fortunes of the Egyptian-Israeli negotiations Ultimately, though, the private perceptions each side has of the other will determine the outcome of the current Middle East peace probings And in a remarkably thoughtful, little-noticed interview published last month in the slick government-sponsored weekly October, President Anwar Sadat has for the first time revealed how he sees Israel's people, politics and prospects...

...Sadat explains that he has gained his knowledge of the Israelis through reading books and articles by and about them and studying them, in his words, "as a boxer studies his opponent " He regularly watches translated tapes of Israeli news and public affairs programs, a practice that enabled him to recognize Israeli leaders on sight during his dramatic trip to Jerusalem last year More important, this has resulted in his coming to appreciate what the Egyptians consider to be the Israelis' siege mentality Consequently, he no longer argues about the legitimacy of the 1948 partition of Palestine, but treats the Jewish State as a reality that must be dealt with on equal terms...