Prof. Mead Thinks It Possible Capitalism Will Survive-But...
Saltzman, Israel
By Israel Saltzman Prof. Mead Thinks It Possible Capitalism Will Survive—But... David P. Berenbarf Brilliantly Uphold. Socialist Position in Thoughtful Debate at Brooklyn Forum. T*1IE question...
...Japan has determined itself to be the boss down there...
...Joe inquired...
...tedagfrom « we are...
...He joined our party at the time of the war...
...That is very interesting," ssid Bill...
...Surplus Value The worker gets approximately ' r>0% tff the price of his product, and the rest is retsined in the form of profit, interest, and rent...
...I got the hint from a book by James H. R. Cromwell, a step-son of a partner of J. P. Morgan and Co...
...Jjjjjt the pthedlrned Ifetteth...
...ticket because all hi* friends voted th* Socialist dfcket...
...Think of the hundreds of millions of human beings thst have lived on this earth even back to our ancestors who first learned how to smelt ore, who invented the lever and the wheel...
...asked Joe...
...If the manpower wasted in useless personal services were applied to production, machinery as we know it would become more productive then we have ever imagined...
...Joe Gets a New Idea Which Pioues Somewhat Aged Under Inspection But Old Pals Avoid Hostilities By Autolycus YOU msy think that I'm a Bourbon but I'm just as open to new ideas as you are," said Joe as be and Bill sat down in the Rand School cafeteria...
...He surprised the audience by saying, "I am not so silly as to deny that capitalism may disappear in the future," and also "Laisses-faire is...
...Thanks for the kind words, Bill, but you've been very hard on me at times," Joe replied...
...He fought manfully to rescue refugees from Russia from being turned back to the hangmen of the Czar...
...He studied at Minsk and St...
...If it does not, another economic system will follow It, but what follows capitalism in no way determines 1 whether or not capitalism tfill survive...
...Still, isn't it true that his personal genius and ability built up his big industry...
...The Chiness won't, give up without* fight * '• * 1' Yura Nudder wants to know bow the Japanese and Chinese know whom to shoot wheq they're in a war, because she can't tell a Japanese apart from a Chinese...
...Hourwich...
...There was no man be disliked worse than Daniel de Leon, but he used to rote th* S.L.P...
...There isn't much to eat at home, but think tf all the glory tht Japanese peasants will have »bout a. hundred...
...But his curious attitui'e" of always being against th* crowd was of enormous value...
...tiiness that's ¦wefaetur...
...It means an installment of state capitslism and it is perfectly consistent with Cromwell's desire to strengthen capitalism...
...Didn't Ford rise from the working class and through his own efforts accumulate his millions...
...A Virtuous Fortune "| IE certainly has s judicial mind becsuse he distinguishes ** between the big fellows I just mentioned and those who got their money honestly...
...It would take more space than here available merely to list Hour-wich's varied activities...
...Set not evicted...
...A year later, in 1913, he was running for Congress on the Bull Moose ticket to fill a vacancy...
...He employed many different pseudonyms...
...Outside of getting cock-eyed drunk, making history is the best way to havs a little fun out of life...
...Ford passed from one stags to the other ahd today he is one of the most extensive purchasers of labor power in this country'and Hhe more he bought the greater his fortune became...
...What than becomes of the °«»lc premises of capitalism T ¦ Cbnetaut Bvolntle'n' Human society, said Berenberg, is 1st constant evolution, end so Is human nature...
...Capitalism Destroys Homes DENVER, Colo.—Rev...
...shot to pieces...
...That's s new idea for me," ssid Joe...
...He bitterly criticized the Socialist Party for not having a policy on immigration as uncompromising .is he would have liked...
...And all the stuck-up nations refused to attend Manchukuo's birthday party I * * * Manchukuo is crying, and Japan is sore...
...b) sad hungry «cept for "shad way...
...Whst else does he say...
...He singles out railroads and public utilities for condemnation but blesses big oligarchies like the Fofd empire...
...Capitalism will or will not.survive...
...The backward nations become developed and the , new industries produce an abun-, dance of goods...
...e * * The pnly way to get out of paying for the war, or any other historical article, is to resign from the' human race...
...V gggrt s 5...
...The Source of Labor Robbery "/CERTAINLY not," said Bill...
...He says that he is opposed to the big fat boys that got their vast wealth through exploitation of public monopolies...
...He's fair, too...
...and he supported parties of time-servers and trimmers to punish our party...
...The success of any economic system is measured *by its effectiveness in producing and in Just distribution, he said...
...Hourwich was very many things...
...he went to Russia and became a bitter opponent of Bolshevism, just at the time his son became an important commissar...
...Th* Republican* will nominate fat Bill Taft and th* Democrats that so and-so Wilson, and I can't see my way out of supporting Debs...
...Joe inquired...
...The historisn said he agreed with Socialists "when they say that the World War was caused by nations fighting for coal, iron, oil, and the like," but he could not agree that to remove capitalism would be to remove the reasons for war...
...He would never conform with others, even his followers and admirers, and it made him uncomfortable if anybody agreed with him on anything...
...The profit motive would be removed and progress would cease...
...When other men, bis followers, likewise began to wear question marks in their neckties, Hourwich discarded his snd begsn to wear a little devil's head...
...But isn't It fair...
...the experiments in...
...He stands for government ownership of the railroads and all public utilities," said Joe, "and that ought to satisfy you...
...He wrote against Bolshevism and carried on business with the Soviets...
...He wrote many and important books on immigration, economics and other subjects...
...Just the sssl -.AsftrM people ean't sJWJ heII and ftH...
...People disagreed with him, but he made them think to justify their position...
...Come to think of it, I never have," said Joe, somewhat puzzled...
...Japan believes in self-determination in Manchukuo...
...We let him monopolise the fruits of the thought, lsbors and genius of centuries snd explain his wealth by saying thst his genius1 snd ability produced it...
...But whether he really was a Socialist at all, has been doubted...
...Petersburg...
...Sii York Socisl ated with i i Party, he | Democracy...
...He became a lawyer and practiced in Russia...
...He was admitted to practice law in Russian in 1887, in 1»^^B of gatherisl the vast urn Mines ssi books in tin work is of MesnwU incressinjb I cialists...
...One section of the ruling class may decide to go along with Cromwell and urge the transfer of railroads and utilities to the government,"' said Bill, "but this will not solve the troubles of the working class...
...There is no doubt that he was a remarkable man, a brilliant man, and, personally, one of the most delightful of men...
...But whst about that public ownership program...
...can have their morganatic offspring recognized, while they can't...
...you're just converted into the highest grade blue-coal, trade marked...
...His two candidacies, both, by the way, unsuccessful, one in Russia and lone in Harlem, were on non-Social-ist ticket* and against Socialists, although he stoutly maintained he was the best Socialist of us all...
...He was a fiery agitator for the things that interested him, he was a Socialist of sorts (and of tremendous influence in the movement), he was a scholar and a jour lalist...
...I have a new idea and I'll pass it on to you...
...if it expresses reality, or should it emphasize sex...
...Professor Mead deelered.- that1 capitalism has been changing from the time of its appearance in the eighteenth century, and must continue to chtnge, perhaps sven tak-r ing on some of the features of a planned economy...
...The reception that capitalism gave to the Swope Plan by no means showed a trend toward planning, said Berenberg...
...Tea, millions of wage slaves can't find an exploiter...
...Of course, there are also other ways of getting the coin, by speculation and graft, for instance, but all the other forms also exclude the selling of labor power...
...The League of Nations 'has received a report from a specisl committee urging that Japan be censured for conduct becoming only to a first-rate white man's nation like England of France...
...whether it can be conservstive...
...And he died in 1924...
...So according to his own views he wants to prrserve'the system for hit...
...That's hokum," said Bill with impatience...
...At the same time he was a member of the Russian bar and of the American bar While he was active in American public life he was running for the Duma in Russia...
...and being the kind of man he was, I can quite believe that articles by "Isaac Halevy" were quoted in arguments against points raised by "Yitzchok Isaac"— both Dr...
...Good" and''Bad'' Capitalists "AND Cromwell doesn't want you to think of it," Bill shot back...
...In 1912 he told m« sorrowfully, "I guess 111 have to vote for 'Gen* Debs, though I hate to do it...
...Then he came to the United States, and got a followship at Columbia, received his Ph.D...
...class...
...Mswchsrfe L( sad writing U volumes on k important lit scholarly It importance...
...What ha* your party to say in protest at this outrage T" he demanded of me...
...He wrote in Yiddish for many papers—learning to write that language after he was 35...
...It may be used to develop . economically backward nations or \ new industries...
...But what about that stste capitalism you mentioned...
...In his rebuttal Mead insisted upon his right to criticise Socialism when discussing "Can Capitalism Survive t" We shouldn't worry if capitalism collapses "after we're dead* he said...
...Berenberg in his rebuttal pointed out that Socialists watch for trends and point them out, and say to society, "These are the trends...
...Once the wage slaves learn that all the progress of the ages is a social heritage of the hundreds of millions of human beings now living, they will not tolerate Cromwell's artificial division of the capitalist class into good capitalists and bad capitalists...
...10- Israel A. Hourwich IN the first place it is a Question • whether or not Isaac A. Hour-wich belongs at all in this gallery of Socialists of the past...
...He occupied a unique place in our movement...
...Isaac Hourwich was a Russisn and an American...
...Berenberg, in replying, questioned Mesd's reasoning./ To argue that the survival or failure of capitalism is dependent upon the economic system thst may take its place is illogical, he said...
...Michael Strsnge— whose name fools a lot of people into thinking that the charming and attractive lady who bears it is a man—will answer the questions whether the stage must be radical...
...People and conditions of a thousand and even a hundred years ago are different, and individuals snd their motives remain, by and large, the reflection of socisl conditions...
...If planned economy means anything, It means the abandonment , of the policy of laissez-faire, it means government regulation of i hours and wages and the right to invest...
...He was interviewed in his swell suite in the Waldorf-Astoria Tower and he declared that he was a capitalist who wanted capitalism to continue but without considerable changes it could not continue...
...their use, the inventions of millions of human beings, the application of science snd its discoveries to the preontsjen of weslth...
...The discussion was at the Brooklyn Forum last Sunday...
...In the days of the Coolidge-I Hoover prosperity it was futile to , speak of planned economy, but now, after the evaporation of the prom-ises of the New Capitalism, serious consideration is given to thst idea...
...t e • e We esn fix it sasy so thst our eeto little grandchildren will b* born right In the Bends of receivers...
...I saw something about Cromwell and his book in the New York Times...
...Japan can't understand why England, France, Italy, etc...
...the discovery of steam and later of electricity...
...He always found an excuse to b* with th* non-conformers—outside th* rank...
...that is, by everybody except himself...
...The productive powers of machinery have only been touched, he said...
...tea had been Bonf tht So-ef th* New it first affili-ocialist Labor I Debs • Social the Debs So-led into the ¦OW or other Uide...
...History is against it...
...Hourwich was born in Vilna April 26, 1860...
...Very old," said Bill...
...W. M. F. With the History Makers tub/ little naff battleships u. Think how V save used lUglsry...
...They are a product of history...
...asked Joe...
...In addition Jacob Peuring, distinguished pisnist, will give a recital of music by Schumann, Da-busSy and Chopin...
...It will give Us a mixture •f private capitalism and state capitalism...
...MICHAE STRANGE, SHIPLEY AND DeWin AT FORUM SYMPOSIUM Michael Strange, noted poet and playwright, will hold the platform together with Joseph T. Shipley and Samuel A. DeWitt Sunday night at the Brooklyn Forum In a symposium on "The Theatre as s Social Force...
...Ho said the demands of big business for large profits resulted in starvation wage* for men, and when they became unable to j support their, families the i wem«n . and children .were forced to obtain jobs to make up the difleit la the family Midget...
...Clad to know thst out of something old you got something new," ssid Hill...
...Sketching the history of capitalism, Berenberg said that just as i capitalism grew within the feudal i state, so do the tendencies that i lead to another form of economic ¦ life develop within capitalism...
...said Bill a* they paid their bills end departed...
...A large audience listened thoughtfully to a thoughtful discussion of a serious subject...
...Socialists Profiles No...
...However, he persisted, a planned economy is possible under capitalism...
...Capital accumulates, and it must be re-invested to insure further profits...
...The idea coming from such high eminence should interest me," said Bill...
...He entered the labor movement, and for years thereafter a particularly turbulent local of the International Ladies' Garment Workers' Union was known as Local Hourwich...
...In 1006, cam* th* feeble flicker of democracy in Russia, and Hour wieh want back to run tor the Duma—but not a* a Socialist I He found excellent reason* for finding himself in th* Cadet party of Paul Milyukor in opposition to Socialist candidates...
...However, he said, if capitalism is to fall there must be some economic system ready to take its place, and therefore he undertook to examine the Socialist claim...
...A few months later the Roose-r*lt Progressive* met in Chicago snd excluded Negro delegates from th* South...
...All this msy be a new idea to you, but it is very old," said Bill...
...He mentions Henry Ford," Joe continued, "whose great fortune was 'accumulated solely by the exercise of superior genius and ability,' and there you are...
...t , ' "e"' V' The Japanese sure are having a tw'stt time, though...
...And he was a prince .if good fellows...
...They are neither good nor bad...
...Were it not for the lsbors, thought, sacrifices snd the genius of human beings in the past, Henry Ford would not have beenjpoasible...
...I'm skeptical, but shoot...
...there with a dissertation that became famous, a work on the Economics of the Rus-ian Village...
...he commented upon Professor Mead's lack of worry for posterity by comparing it to the French king's "After us, the deluge...
...I luspect he was just looking for a plausible excuse to wriggle out of voting with the crowd as capitalist politicians had for years been embroiled in disputes regarding Negro delegates to conventions...
...No more than the railroad and utility capitalists did," said Bill...
...Ford's power and wealth are as much the result of our Stupidity as any other corporate empire...
...years from now when tht history books will ttll how, the Nipponese Km, e .», •. It...
...Professor Mead said, a Socialist state could not produce wealth as effectively as capitalism...
...He did not apply this criteria to capitalism, however, but launched into a criticism of Socialism...
...Then capitalist . nations turn to war on each ether I in order tO snatch niarkets for . goods and capital...
...History i, bad bnsises pie psy se snd the est to keep St) Remember Tower of ft ing installs years, and 1 thing yet Another I manufaetsr customer hi likes the arl take it sail the TrelsSl at fet tea on a trad** A good at Civil Wsr...
...That's all," "I wish I could sell my labor power," said Jos...
...iTJever thought of that," said Joe...
...But he did find bis way out...
...It is only when a man ^" passes from the stage of selling his own labor power to the stage of buying the labor power of many workers that he begins to accumulate wealth...
...Capitalism curbs improvements because it wants to save its capital investment...
...Human nature, he said, has never changed "from the days of Adam down," and "the substitution of any other economic system will not uproot these characteristics...
...Now it's up to us t* play the ssme kind of tricks on enr descendants...
...After that, it becomes a question of distribution...
...T*1IE question "Can Capitalism Survive ?" was answered with a clear and analytical "no" by David P. Berenberg, Socialist scholar and author of "Socialist Fundamentals," while Professor Nelson P. Mead, head of the History Department of the College of the City of New York,- responded with a highly modified "yes...
...He wa* responsible for more thought than any other man I ever knew—and that entitles him to his plsce here...
...A Bourbon is one that never learns anything new and never forgets anything old," said Bill, "and I have never accused you of that...
...e ? Our ancestors—the sweet darlings—made plenty of expensive history for us...
...Ford was once a wage worker selling labor power to capitalists...
...e By the way, now is tht time when a fellow can get himself tome swell ancestors at bargain rotes...
...Do you know of a single instance in all history of a man becoming wealthy by selling labor power...
...Their-first word* will be their testimony hi supplementary proceedings, m • Talk about being torn waited-they'll owe « trot and teeond mart-me en their .kins, % ft IT was one year ago last Saturday * that Manchukuo was born as the illigitimate child of Japan, following the rape of China...
...I told him we had other things to think about than th* vagaries of the Bull Moose crusaders, but he seriously told me that the failure of the Socialist Party to protest against something done by the Bull Moose [tarty caused him to desert our party and support that one...
...Must bo hard on a fellow to be a mens tion with i and no mi proud the 1 to feel, r*t The Japi the (lepras Their peopl and their war-time oi But they h prospering, ing history...
...And if you've failed to meet your obligations here, you'll be blackballed out of heaven...
...Those who knew him respected him, although party Socialists might have been impatient with him (as we were...
...Theyrc offering two admirals and one mistress for ton dollars at a downtown antiquo thop, and the framti alone aro worth the money...
...Isaac A. Hourwich was a man of charm and of genuine brilliance...
...Hugh L. McMenamin, rector of the Immaculate Conception Church here, declared American capitalism is, responsible for the appalling increase In broken homes...
...The other two speakers are brilliant poets, and members of The New Leader staff...
...Isaac Hourwich used to wear a gold question mark as a tie pin...
...Making history Is bettor because you esn charge it, while you have to pay cash for the roigut...
...I cial Den* Socialist Pi he found Isl Urn New Tork PJ?r.t th...
...His idea is to throw a bone with a few shreds of meat on it to us but for his class to keep the juicy steaks...
...The Class Struggle Professor Mesd admitted the existence of the class struggle under capitalism, but insisted that Socialism would only substitute a conflict among grades of workers...
...a high grade, expert sta istician, highly regarded by the census bureau and author of valuable reports in the 1900 and the 1910 censuses...
Vol. 15 • February 1933 • No. 8
