Benedita da Silva: Community activist and senator, Brazil
Benjamin, Medea & MendonÇa, Maria Luisa
How did you become involved in the PT? From its very beginnings, the PT understood the need to be as broad based as possible. Its strongest base of support was the unions and the workers'...
...What do you think you and your colleagues in the PT can accomplish in the coming years...
...Enforcement of the law is very weak in Brazil, and the rich find all sorts of ways to evade payments...
...The state also has a role to play in developing national industries that are vital to our economy...
...It was such a man's world that there still wasn't even a restroom for female deputies...
...We managed to pass an amendment that made racial prejudice a crime without bail and with no statute of limitation...
...or "Hey monkey, go back to your tree...
...White men on the street would yell at me and make obscene gestures...
...In the business world, 82% of businessmen and high-level administrators are white...
...But I disagree...
...Brazil has the veneer of a racially harmonious society To what extent is this myth or reality...
...We still need to renegotiate the foreign debt...
...However, there are still many issues to work out...
...Life expectancy for blacks is eight years shorter than for whites...
...The most important thing is your actions...
...We certainly need international institutions to regulate global issues, but not institutions that are controlled by big capital, like the World Trade Organization or the World Bank...
...Have you been able to build the same kind of strength in the black movement that exists in the women's movement...
...They expected women to talk only about women's issues...
...I certainly believe we need something radically different...
...On one side are the business people who are out to defend their own not impo interests and profits, regardless of the down, needs of the rest of society...
...In the beginning, it was often difficult for people like me who came from the grassroots to find a voice within the party...
...In a country with 150 million people, we have to put more emphasis on our own internal market, a market that could generate so much production and so many jobs...
...There are hundreds of black organizations in Brazil today that focus on issues like cultural identity-music groups, dance ensembles, religious organizations...
...Our society is sharply divided between rich and poor, black and white...
...A strong union movement is critical to implementing policies that favor workers...
...People joked that if I were elected, I'd change the big statue of Christ that overlooks the city for a statue of King Kong...
...If we can get this clause passed, then I would be more optimistic about having free-trade agreements with our Latin American neighbors...
...We said: "What are you talking about...
...A better distribution of land would also increase food production for domestic consumption, stimulating the internal market...
...How about issues that go beyond national boundaries...
...When I was first elected as a deputy, there were only 26 women deputies out of a total of 599...
...Even if only a relatively small portion of the work force is unionized, many non-union employees benefit from the gains of the unionized workers...
...One of the issues the black movement has successfully organized around was ensuring that the 1988 Constitution protect our rights...
...We need a development model that sees the generation of employment as an objective in and of itself...
...From my point of view, what they really want is open access to our internal markets and resources so they can continue to profit at our expense...
...And the congressmen treated us with such paternalism...
...But we forced the party to have critical discussions of issues around class, race and gender, and this has strengthened the party...
...Because of this male domination, we women in Congress from all parties got together and launched an amazing national campaign to demand that as of 1996, at least 20% of all candidates from all political parties be women...
...Brazil's more advanced industrial sector can make it hard for the other countries to compete...
...They are becoming less focused on narrowly defined workplace issues and are getting involved in larger economic and political issues-from agrarian reform to the foreign debtthat have an impact on wage policies and affect broad think we need to try n VPrrinn Of The state has to play a major role in trying to harmonize different social socialis forces...
...They'd shout things like, "Your place is in the favela...
...No 1 JULY/AUG 199713 0 0 I B R A Z I L VoLXXXI, No 1 JULY/AUG 1997 13 13VOICES ON THE LEFT We make other demands on the men in the party...
...For me, ideology is not the key issue...
...We've already vetoed the candidacy of some men who want to defend the rights of working people but won't give financial support to their children...
...I started to get nasty letters and threatening phone calls...
...It was a beautiful example of how women of different political persuasions, together with the support of the women's movement around the country, could come together and force all parties to increase the representation of women...
...One of our biggest achievements is the changes we have brought about within the PT itself...
...But the fact that I'm a black woman from a poor background allows me to break a lot of stereotypes...
...You've talked about the need for unions, a strong workers' party, and for state intervention to tame market forces...
...I 1 What do you think is the proper role of government in shaping the economy...
...But at least we don't have the tremendous imbalances like those that exist between Mexico and the United States, imbalances that put Mexico in a subordinate position within NAFTA...
...The rich countries tell us that if we want to grow and prosper, we have to sell off state industries to the private sector, and drop protectionist policies that favor national industries...
...I have no illusions that my presence here in the Senate is going to change the minds of the people who have power or that it's going to change the world...
...And when blacks do manage to move up the social and economic ladder, they still can't escape racism...
...Its strongest base of support was the unions and the workers' movement in general, but it also received the backing of the progressive wing of the Catholic church...
...The idea persists that blacks should know their placethat they should stick to thefavelas and the poorest paying jobs...
...There are UN agencies, like UNICEF, the World Health Organization, UNESCO and the International Labor Organization, that help improve social conditions in poor nations...
...Another way for southern countries to gain a better negotiating position vis-4-vis the north is to create more south-south links...
...You have been a pioneer in terms of women in politics in Brazil...
...I first heard about the PT through the religious workers in the favelas, who brought us materials and information about the new party...
...I've already been hungry and I've seen my children go hungry, so it's not just an intellectual exercise for me...
...We've already proven our competency by doing all kinds of work in the PT...
...Do you consider yourself a socialist...
...Today, their arms of oppression and domination are not guns, but calculators...
...It reached out to intellectuals and grassroots organizers...
...But what about on the international level...
...The inclusion of the so-called social clause proposed by the unions would guarantee workers the freedom to organize, prohibit child labor, ensure health and safety regulations, and protect against discrimination in the workplace...
...Once the elites of Rio understood that there was a real possibility that a black woman could be elected mayor, they panicked...
...Of the 559 members of Congress, only 7 consider themselves black...
...I also think Mercosur could serve as a model of cooperation between Third World countries if we can make sure that it doesn't benefit just the multinational corporations, becoming an instrument for companies to jump from one country to another in search of cheap labor...
...So we began to push the party to have an affirmativeaction policy that would guarantee that at least 30% of leadership positions be occupied by women...
...It wasn't easy to establish this quota...
...I want to give people hope, to inspire them to seize whatever opportunities they can...
...Blacks in Brazil make up over half the population, yet we are virtually absent from senior levels of government...
...How can a person be trusted to defend the rights of children if he won't even take care of his own children...
...But we have failed to build a strong, cohesive national movement that can really influence policy...
...Brazil is perhaps the country in Latin America that has most resisted the neoliberal model, and our unions VoL XXXI, No 1 JULY/AUG 1997 rm that is rted or topbut a kind alism that Scts our and works m the om up...
...This law hasn't modified people's behavior, but at least it gives us legal support...
...So to get around their prejudices, I would talk about "women and agrarian reform," "women and workers' rights," women and everything else, until they finally took me seriously on these other issues...
...The most important thing is NACIA REPORT ON THE AMERICASVOICES ON THE LEFT what you do in your everyday life to make the world better...
...Socialism, in theory, could do that...
...Unfortunately, it has been distorted in almost all the places it has been tried...
...And we have to make the rich in Brazil pay their fair share of taxes...
...It welcomed both atheists and believers...
...I was always religious, and even though I believed in socialism, I couldn't identify with other left-wing parties because they were atheist...
...How are Brazilian workers confronting the global economy...
...The PT's ideas resonated with my own beliefs, and I became a strong supporter...
...For the first time, we have the possibility of punishing those who commit racist acts...
...The state is supposed to represent pub- bott lic, not private, interests...
...Successful blacks are considered arrogant and uppity...
...It's total myth...
...The racist nature of our society became really clear during my campaign for mayor of Rio...
...But if you look back at the history of countries like Japan and the United States, you see that they created strong economies by protecting their own markets...
...Unfortunately no, due to the complexities of race issues in Brazil and the reluctance of many blacks to embrace their own identity...
...On the other side are the impoverished masses, the of SOCi ones who create the wealth but don't share in the profits...
...I know that in this political work, the victories are few and far between...
...We also have to stop capital flight made in Brazil is used to build up the country, and not used to buy condominiums in Florida...
...Sometimes employers offer the same wagesor even more-as a way to keep the unions out...
...What we've witnessed in the past decades is that the rich nations have developed sophisticated mechanisms to control our countries without appearing as colonizing forces...
...What other measures are you advocating to improve the economy...
...But the UN is undergoing a serious financial crisis, mostly because the big countries like the United States refuse to pay their allotted portion...
...Some people on the left think that we shouldn't focus on the issue of race because the major issue is one of class...
...The strong agricultural sector in Argentina can hurt farmers in the other countries...
...We need to transform our society into one in which human relations take precedence over material things...
...so that money sectors of society...
...But the PT was different...
...are on the forefront of this resistance...
...Some men insisted that there was no gender discrimination in the party and that women could become leaders once we proved we were competent...
...We had to convince them that the quota was necessary because discrimination was the real reason we were not in those positions...
...That's why I call for a strategy that focuses on micro, small and medium enterprises, because it's the small businesses that generate the most jobs, especially for workers who are not highly skilled...
...During the days of apartheid in South Africa, there were more blacks in South African universities than in Brazilian ones...
...Illiteracy for blacks is 37%, compared to 15% for whites...
...What do you consider your biggest successes...
...In the armed forces, you'll find few or no blacks among the generals, admirals and colonels...
...Another way to generate employment is through land reform that would give the landless their own plots so they wouldn't have to migrate to the cities...
...The negotiations for the creation of a free market among Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay, known as Mercosur, make sense since these countries have similar economic conditions...
...Right now, we're one of the major agricultural exporters in the world but we don't produce enough food for our own people...
...Whether you believe in capitalism or socialism as the best social system is really irrelevant...
...You may believe that in theory people shouldn't go hungry, but if you don't do anything to stop hunger then your thoughts are meaningless...
...So when the rich countries tell us to open our markets, they are saying: "Do as I say, not as I do...
...But the non-union workers often don't get other critical benefits, such as guaranteed employment, health insurance or pensions...
...Though the PT talked about promoting women's issues, and women were always behind the scenes doing the work, very few women were chosen by the party to run for office...
...They say that if we built a society with a fair distribution of wealth, the position of blacks would automatically improve...
...If we analyze our present circumstances and look back at history, we'll understand that what the people in the Southern Hemisphere are experiencing today is merely a more advanced and refined form of colonialism...
...We shouldn't have to bear the total responsibility for bad loans made to the corrupt military regime under onerous conditions...
...And in the middle is resp( the state, which is supposed to curb capitalism's worst excesses and steer culture the economy in a direction that meets fro the needs of the majority of its citizens...
...They get furious and say we're interfering in their personal affairs, but it forces them to confront their own contradictions...
...Get back to the kitchen...
...There is one Cabinet minister of mixed descent, and none of the country's 23 state governors are black...
...As a representative of the Workers Party, I was always interested in issues like agrarian reform and workers' rights, but they tried to keep me out of these discussions...
...I think we need to try a version of socialism that is not imported or top-down, but a kind of socialism that respects our culture and works from the bottom up...
...For example, we insist that PT leaders pay child support...
...We've talked about gender inequality but what about race...
...The intellectuals in the party used a language that was very different from ours, and they tended to dominate the debates...
...Blacks suffer because they are poor, but they are poor precisely because they are black...
...We would go door to door in the favelas, explaining what the party was about and recruiting new members...
...VOL XXXI...
...It's a question of doing something so that others don't have to suffer like we did...
...But I think we must keep on trying, since the poorer countries of the world are in desperate need of new social experiments...
...Blacks get less education, earn less, eat more poorly and die earlier than whites...
...Moreover, the major UN decisions are made by the five permanent members of the Security Council-the United States, Russia, China, England and France-which have the power to veto any resolution...
...We're just not getting the recognition...
Vol. 31 • July 1997 • No. 1
