An Interview with MAS' Teodoro Petkoff
Ellner, Steve
Movement Toward Sociahsm (MAS) has been Venezuela's third party, and the largest party on the Left, since the 1 970s. Now MAS is a part of the governing coalition of President Rafael Caldera,...
...In Venezuela, there is no doubt that MAS deserves the credit for the direct election of governors and other important reforms that have been implemented in recent years...
...Sure, we went from third to fifth place but this descent was relative since AD and Copei lost their near monopolistic status and we are thus in a much stronger position with regard to the establishment parties...
...What happened is that MAS has been around for 23 years, and people thus associated us with the "old" politics...
...Would you say that opposition to neoliberalism is its common denominator, or is it committed to socialism...
...Nowadays, many in the upper-income brackets in Venezuela pay no taxes at all...
...I would actually prefer to call it the "emerging Left...
...Everything other than what common sense says should be run by the state, should be destatized, which is a word I prefer to "privatize...
...To what extent can the ideological examination which is long overdue in MAS be enriched by a dialogue with other progressive Latin American parties...
...With regard to this "new Left...
...In a country where there is absolutely no system of social security worthy of its name, the worker's future is not assured even to the most minimum degree...
...Of course, large property-holders do not need any protec- tion and can perfectly well be exposed to competition...
...It is neoliberalism that is bent on converting the issue into one of ideology...
...Fedecamaras [Venezuela's Chamber of Commerce] favors scrapping the system of severance payments for workers, a position which important sectors of orga- nized labor argue should not even be considered or discussed...
...And the errors that MAS committed can- not be overlooked either...
...We were affected not by the collapse itself, but by the idea that no alternative to capitalism exists...
...The state has to carry out a policy of reduction and rationalization of spending and this implies, of course, the repression of a number of privileges, and ostentatious and conspicuous 20 NLA REPORT ON THE AMERICASREPORT ON VENEZUELA Since the collapse of Communism, the non-Communist Left has been on the defensive...
...I am thinking here of corn, rice, cereals...
...The veteran MAS leader and theoretician Teodoro Petkoff was a prime mover behind MAS' association with Caldera...
...It includes the Workers Party in Brazil, the PRD in Mexico, the M-19 in Colombia, Sandinismo, groups like MAS, and perhaps also some sectors of the Socialist Party in Chile...
...What is your position on this extremely polemical issue...
...I believe that the state sector should be concentrated in two areas: upstream activity in the oil industry and electrical energy...
...Now I hope this new movement will be located in a position which can be called "advanced social democracy...
...Privatization has to be seen through pragmatic lenses...
...What sectors could be singled out and on the basis of what criteria2 Some sectors of agricultural production which generate the most employment in the countryside, as well as small- and medium-size agricultural property, have to be protected...
...I believe that here in Latin America a new Left is emerging...
...First and foremost the government itself...
...After all, it takes in parties with distinct trajectories...
...In fact, many people do not know that this was Andres Velasquez' third presidential candidacy, since the first and even the second did not draw much attention...
...Now MAS is a part of the governing coalition of President Rafael Caldera, and the party has won greater congressional representation than ever before...
...MAS was pushing these measures long before AD and Copei, which refrained from committing themselves to them until the late 1980s...
...Caldera ca/Is for selective protectionism...
...But none of these parties even remotely resembles the old Left...
...Cer- tain parts of the state sector should be turned into cooperatives, which would promote new forms of decision-making...
...Workers have good reasons to oppose the "flexibility of the labor market" since the burden falls completely on their shoulders...
...MAS is also in danger of being eclipsed by the workers' party Causa R as a critical force on the Left...
...To discuss a modification in the present system of severance payment, without the existence of a satisfactory alternative proposal, can only lead to lowering the cost of layoffs...
...But we also firmly opposed Perez...
...Many people don't realize that Causa R has been around almost as long...
...Would you say that these parties are equal to the establishment parties in their defense of democracy...
...We were affected not by the collapse itself, but by th e idea that no alternative to capitalism exists...
...He was interviewed by Steve ElIner in his Caracas office on January 24...
...The MASistas are, however, clearly the junior partners in the Caldera coalitionthe unpredictable social Christians of Convergencia are the dominant partners...
...Does this show that MAS needs to adopt a firmer discourse or build up its presence on the streets and in social movements...
...Of course, protectionism which implies discretionary powers on the part of the government frequently leads to corruption, but we have to run this risk because it is preferable to have a productive apparatus with a capacity to generate sustained economic growth than to open the country to de-iridustrialization as occurred under the Perez Administration...
...Perhaps the M-19 is in certain ways ahead of the others because it did not emerge from the old Left...
...This, of course, is not to deny the effectiveness of Causa R's work over the years, especially in select industries in the "iron zone...
...He wants to study each case individually...
...Causa R's electoral advances are in large part the result of its success in capturing the anti-Perez sentiment, due to its hardened opposition to his government...
...What sectors of the population should bear the brunt of these policies...
...This search is necessary for a Left that since the collapse of Communism has been on the defensive...
...Yes, these results need to be seriously analyzed...
...Some sectors of small- and medium-size industry will also have to be protected...
...expenses...
...And I am talking of the non-Communist Left...
...And, in the second place, the very rich...
...First, the creation of a fiscal police force which is so stringent and well-paid that it would be more expensive to bribe it than to pay taxes...
...The term "new Left" is not so new anymore...
...These parties are a far cry from the orthodox Communist Left and Castro, for instance, who has refused to accept political competition in Cuba...
...The Venezuelan tax policy has to have two basic thrusts...
...Caldera not only talks of selective protectionism but also of selective privatization...
...And in the second place, an income-tax reform so that the rich pay what they are supposed to...
...Following his election, Caldera spoke of the "politics of austerity...
...On the basis of what criteria should decisions be taken...
...In any case, how is MAS analyzing the December results...
...It is actually too soon to say...
...They are far ahead...
...Our trade unionists, for instance, have negotiated good contracts, but they have not succeeded in completely differentiating themselves from AD and Copei in the CTV [Venezuelan Confederation of Workers...
...Nevertheless, the December elections were hardly a setback for MAS...
...Causa R displaced MAS as the nation's third largest party...
...This is what is called in the jargon of neoliberal economists the "flexibility of the labor market," which means, in effect, making layoffs cheaper and easier...
...An all-important search is taking place...
Vol. 27 • March 1994 • No. 5
