An Interview with Navarro Wolff
Antonio Navarro Wolff, a coman- dante of the former urban-based guerrilla movement M-19, is now running for president as the candidate of the M-19/Democratic Alliance (M-19/AD) in the May 1994...
...It would not have the same impact, and it would place the guerrillas in an inferior position in relation to us and with respect to public opinion...
...Despite the fact that this continues to be a bipartisan political system, we have become a significant political force...
...If you disarm the guerrillas, you also have to disarm the military...
...ically viable despite the inherent limitations...
...But here in Colombia, no...
...Yes, but you have to carefully analyze the earlier peace process...
...But two things had changed in Colombia...
...But an army as such, which is necessary to fight a guerrilla war, has to be built up in the countryside...
...In the cities, you can create support groups...
...No one has been able to create a guerrilla army in the cities...
...To achieve certain objectives or to maintain positions that they have won...
...Opportunities for politics appeared that previously had not existed...
...It has its own meaning and purpose...
...It will deteriorate because the guerrillas are losing their political perspective...
...Of course...
...One, we discovered that Colombia is a much more urban country than we had originally believed-that people from the city are reluctant to take up armed action in the mountains...
...Antonio Navarro Wolff, a coman- dante of the former urban-based guerrilla movement M-19, is now running for president as the candidate of the M-19/Democratic Alliance (M-19/AD) in the May 1994 elections...
...Absolutely...
...What is your position on armed struggle and the groups which today continue to sponsor armed insurgency...
...In the cities, you can create support groups...
...Further, there are sufficient elements today to create a real politics for political change...
...The Union Patri6tica was part of a project that advocated the simultaneous pursuit of armed struggle and political struggle...
...Navarro smiles.] Look, we have supported all the peace initiatives...
...He was interviewed in his Bogota office last November by Marc Chernick...
...We withdrew from the current administration when the government chose to pursue a politics of "integral war...
...In 1990 the M-19 decided to accept the government's offerand conditions-to negotiate a new and lasting peace accord...
...My position is that a guerrilla Candidate Navarro Wolff speaks to the press in Bogota...
...For us, peace is basic...
...And I believe that we made the right decision...
...The desire for peace is so great among the population that any movement that embraces it will gain followers...
...We are committed to the peace process...
...We don't want to fall into the newer forms of nationalism which are now appearing in the world, but this does imply a different notion of development for Colombian society...
...The only people who go are the most mar- ginal or those with a very highly developed political orientation who make a conscientious and ideologi- cal decision...
...We believe that supporting peace is the best way to win support among public opinion, That is our experience...
...For this reason, the current guerril- las are not likely to make similar unilateral gestures...
...They can't be defeated, at least in the foreseeable future...
...Does this imply a change in your conception of revolution...
...Second, the country began to open up politically, which for us came as a great surprise...
...Well, the possibility of organizing alternative parties and ad-hoc political movements that stood a chance of success, without being excluded...
...The national reality exists...
...This does not mean, however, that one cannot create an alternative political party as an unarmed movement, or as a movement which has completely disarmed...
...Such as...
...This type of project is not viable...
...However it is also unlikely that you will lose...
...We chose the latter path because of the impossibility of the former...
...The triumph of the revolution through the force of arms that allows the complete restructuring of politics and institutions is not the same thing as reaching power through elections where you have to govern within the limitations of existing institutions...
...This might work in Ireland or Spain, because there are different considerations, particularly with regard to respect for human rights...
...This is not chauvinism...
...Our influence counts in the political life of the nation...
...Our original idea was that the people would take up arms and head to the mountains as a result of the general dissatisfaction with politics in the country...
...Especially if we win the presidential elections...
...Of the center-Left...
...I believe that the government has to be willing to make concessions...
...If a true peace is realized, you don't need so many men under arms...
...You have to make changes in the constitutional structures, and as a result of an enduring peace process, you have to reduce the size of the armed forces...
...Is the M-19/AD a party of the Left and are you the presidential candidate of the Left...
...Although the country is now urban, there continues to exist an important social base among the peasants which supports and sustains the guerrillas...
...The guerrillas won't lose...
...movement that does not have a possibility of reaching power, but which persists in armed action, is a guerrilla movement that will inevitably begin to lose coherence...
...The guerrillas can persist in this country for 20 or 30 more years, without reaching power...
...This is what we have done, and we have gained support...
...I believe that it is not possible to win a civil war in this country through revolutionary action...
...Given the conditions in Colombia, we could not have an armed wing and an unarmed political party...
...As a result, you have to negotiate with them and you have to make concessions...
...We are fighting for democracy, for political democracy, for the democratization of the economy...
...For the M-19/AD,what is the center-Left...
...We were the first...
...The current government's position amounts to little more than the call for a unilateral surrender [by the guerrillas...
...We also have a great deal of public support which we don't owe to the government...
...In our case, we made such a unilateral gesture in exchange for a degree of political participation...
...How had your original conceptions of democracy and revolution in Colombia changed...
...Our laying down of arms was based on our evaluation of the situation and our appreciation of the tide of public opinion...
...We are fighting for social justice and we believe in a concept of the coherent nation-not the idea of a weakened nation which has arisen in the wake of the newer processes of globalization...
...It implies a change in the way the revolution is made and in the very conception of revolution...
...Today, a similar process would be like a second chapter to what we did...
...The question to ask is, what are they fighting for...
...We could either persist in a politics that was not viable and thus forfeit the possibility of ever gaining power, or choose a path that was more polit12 NACLA REPORT ON THE AMERICAS 12 NACTA REPORT ON THE AMERICASUPDATE / COLOMBIA "Colombia was becoming an urban country...
...What would you do as president to reach a negotiated settlement with the guerrillas...
...The historical conditions faced by guerrillas still under arms are not the same...
...However, this was also the period when the Uni6n Patri6tica, born from the earlier peace accords with the FARC in the mid-1980s, was being brutally liquidated...
...Colombia was becoming an urban country...
...This had occurred in other historical periods when peasants had taken up arms and fled to the mountains in rebel- lion...
...This was the principal benefit we gained by abandoning armed struggle...
...I would say that we continue to subscribe to the thesis of our earlier years...
...No one has been able to create an army in the cities...
...It may persist, but its internal position will begin to erode...
...Does the M-19 have a role in any future negotiations with the guerrillas...
...In general, the current politics of war is a mistake...
...This is obvious...
Vol. 27 • January 1994 • No. 4
