An Interview with Ben Dupuy, Aristide's Ambassador-at-Large
Orenstein, Catherine
Ben Dupuy is one of Haiti's foremost radical journalists. In 1984 he founded the Committee Against Repression in Haiti. From 1983 until 1991, he was the editor of Haiti's leading opposition...
...But the new assembly industry receives its material from the outside, and the market is also outside...
...Did this affect the power base of the merchant class in Haiti...
...Certain merchants became involved in the assembly industry...
...But most of the civilian governments are very much in tune with the U.S...
...On the one hand, the United States was the biggest promoter of the elections, and facilitated the presence of the United Nations and the Organization of American States (OAS...
...It didn't work that way in Haiti...
...What created this myth of Haiti being a country of small peasant landowners is the very feudal type of social relations, where the large land holdings are divided into small plots and the peasant works those plots for the landowner...
...supervised the election, everybody agreed that the electoral process went fine, and Aristide was duly elected...
...his lifetime...
...How was this agenda pursued and to what effect...
...There have been other occasions for such an action...
...Aristide was the first presidential candidate who came not from the powerful, but from the people...
...After the elections, the United States officially supported Aristide...
...What are the odds of him accepting this arrangement, going back under the auspices of U.N...
...The United States hE could not accept the coup, fu even if they engineered the coup...
...In fact, the oligarchy is composed of large landowners...
...So what is isolated is the domestic labor force...
...If Haiti did not receive petroleum for one or two months, that would be the end...
...But things have changed in recent years...
...They had an alliance with the oligarchy, but don't want the oligarchy to remain in power...
...But instead, you use your boats to stop the refugees, which is totally illegal...
...I'd like you to comment on the i, change in the U.S...
...office by NACLA staff member Catherine Orenstein...
...0 I think the Bush Administrala tion was involved in the coup...
...They had to accept the i necessity of Aristide's return, but under conditions in which he would be totally unable to fulfill his own political agenda and the political agenda of the masses...
...Without a doubt, the U.S...
...He already said he would choose a prime minister from the opposition...
...Another part remained in traditional commerce...
...They could not dispute it because the OAS and the U.N...
...From 1983 until 1991, he was the editor of Haiti's leading opposition newspaper, Haiti Progres...
...You think the leaky embargo was a conscious part ofpolicy ? Yes, it was a question of not letting the embargo force the de facto government to leave...
...We can see how the coup is another tactical alliance, in this case between the assembly-industry sector, Marc Bazin [the former leader of the de facto government], the United States, and the tonton macoute...
...The old elite, or socalled oligarchy, has its base in the agricultural structure of the country, which is semi-feudal...
...This created a division within the merchant class...
...And that would create a very conflictive situation, because the people would still be convinced that Aristide was in control, and that now they could go out and demand their rights...
...But I think he's totally wrong...
...international institutions wanted to change and mobilize the society, and on the other hand, there was the risk that the people might have their own agenda at odds with U.S...
...Capital's need to compete in the world market, and the fact that the cost of labor in developed countries had increased in spite of high technology, led to the creation of a new form of industry-assembly industry-in which foreign capital could be imported into countries like Haiti at much less risk...
...It's not because of Haiti's importance in international terms, but if Aristide is restored to meaningful power, it could derail the whole democratic process in all of Latin America--when leaders emerge with a different political agenda...
...policy...
...But I think that because Clinton was embarrassed about not being able to let the refugees in, he had no alternative but to say okay, we'll solve the problem by orchestrating Aristide's return...
...The coup claimed thousands of lives, closed down the independent press, and precipitated a flood of refugees...
...Because of this development, some in the elite felt the need for a new political structure...
...If the United States was sincere in its opposition to the coup, it would have been easy to get rid of the military by enforcing the U.N...
...It was not a capitalist sector per se...
...So it was necessary to remove political power from the traditional oligarchy...
...If Aristide accepts this arrangement, what would the new government look like...
...I think that the United States can't really rely on the military, who have represented the oligarchy...
...Well, I doubt he would have a government...
...political agenda in this part of the world...
...It was a tricky situation, where on the one hand the United States and the Ben Dupuy in his Brooklyn office...
...agenda...
...So the United States faced a C( dilemma...
...in that case, their goal would be some form of occupation of the country...
...There are several classes struggling in Haiti...
...I think that he could have made a statement-this is one of the things that I have told him time and again...
...Historically, the elite was composed of two sectors...
...There were two objectives: on the one hand, to diffuse the possibility of a mass movement that could wind up in a radical revolution, and on the other, to create a political structure more in tune with these new types of investment and 0 development...
...The coup was a response to this attempt by the masses to control the political process and to create conditions for reformsagrarian reforms and political reforms...
...On the other hand, Aristide's government was not e in tune with the U.S...
...Slavin and Anne-Christine D'Adesky, December, 1991, and Bill Frelick, July, 1992 in NACLA Report on the Americas...
...The only peculiarity in the case of Haiti is that most probably it will done under the auspices of the U.N...
...The struggle to destroy the oligarchy was not only a political power struggle to modernize the state, but also a struggle to destroy the oligarchy's economic base...
...He should say to the United States: "Okay, if you want those people out, don't let the tankers go to Haiti...
...This sector would export agricultural products and import manufactured goods...
...The international investors and the assembly entrepreneurs began to realize that Haiti needed elections, democracy...
...The United States was caught in a contradiction...
...The people's agenda is rooted in a nationalist ideology, which espouses safeguarding the country's independence from its economic partners by promoting selfsufficiency in agriculture...
...This alliance defeated the oligarchy, the assembly entrepreneurs, and the U.S...
...This type of industry is outside the economic structure of the country...
...Where do you see evidence of the role of the United States in the September 1991 coup alliance you describe...
...This was not compatible with the developing assembly industry...
...Before when there was a capitalist venture, the possibility of it being nationalized existed, such as the sugar industry in Cuba...
...Lavalas overcame the type of electoral process where money is the determining factor...
...Historically these two sectors of the elite have been fighting for political control...
...He would have a prime minister, who would run the government...
...And that is where the international institutions and the private banks took a role in lending to those governments...
...it was more merchant-capitalism...
...That's why the Haitian process is so unorthodox...
...This was the beginning of our debt crisis...
...In most Latin American countries, the candidate who can sell himself, just like any merchandise or product, wins the election...
...He was interviewed in his Brooklyn, N.Y...
...But that would have meant a victory for the masses, a victory for Aristide...
...agenda...
...The Lavalas movement that brought Aristide to the presidency is an alliance of the masses-the peasantryand the the traditional merchant bourgeoisie, which was on the verge of bankruptcy...
...had to accept the legitimacy of Aristide's elections...
...Yes...
...And I think they would be very surprised to see that they were not welcome...
...Why didn't Aristide immediately oppose an intervention...
...My feeling is that the United States would like to restructure the army...
...It coincided with the foodaid program which created a situation in which the country became more and more dependent on the outside world...
...policy in Latin America, it has been to replace military dictatorships with civilian governments...
...The people afterward had to fight for total independence...
...And most probably the oligarchy would have lost completely...
...He has decided to play the game, probably hoping that once he gets back he can mobilize the people and change the situation...
...At the same time we had a bourgeois sector...
...No one e has the right to police international waters in time of peace...
...The one handicap was the need for infrastructure...
...Everything would come to a standstill...
...See articles by J.P...
...When Aristide took office in February, 1991, Dupuy was named ambassador-at-large...
...This is probably why the United States is putting so much emphasis on solving the crisis in Haiti...
...I recall that in Haiti's fight for So in this sense, Aristide may be independence, revolutionary leader just a step in the struggle of the Toussaint L'Ouverture fought for people...
...ambassador to Haiti was active in the coup...
...On the one hand there were the landlords, who in Haiti are called gwandon...
...Aristide held power for eight months, until the September 1991 military coup forced him into exile...
...But the reality is quite different...
...Power had always been monopolized by the oligarchy who were very backward...
...If so, why now...
...Dumping surplus food on the Haitian market was a sure way to destroy the economic base of both the agricultural oligarchy and the traditional merchant class, those who had not invested in the new assembly industries...
...embargo...
...troops...
...And if we look at U.S...
...So on the one hand, the U.S...
...As of this writing, the de facto government established by the coup remains in power, as U.S.-brokered negotiations between Aristide and the military continue...
...The very tumultuous history of the country is a result of that strugglewithin the elite...
...To accept the coup would be to send a signal to n all the oligarchies in Latin bL America that the time of coups is not over...
...It would have meant restoring Aristide with even more power than before...
...What is Aristide's role in Haiti's something that didn't occur during future...
...It allowed the United States to put pressure on Aristide to compromise...
...So it would be somebody who would be acceptable to the private sectorthe sector that financed the coup and is connected with the assembly industry...
...They didn't even conceive of modern management, and were more concerned about living a sumptuous life, and using political power to exploit and to enrich themselves...
...and the Security Council...
...They had to accept th ecessity of Aristide's returr It under conditions in which . would be totally unable I Ifill his own political agency nd the political agenda of the masses...
...By the late 1980s, Haiti Progres had become the voice of Lavalas, the political movement that swept Jean-Bertrand Aristide to power in the December 16, 1990 elections...
...What were the political alliances behind the elections...
...Who supported Aristide, and who opposed him ? Well, in the arena you had the United States, trying to change the political structure and fighting the oligarchy, but at the same time allying with the oligarchy in order to oppose the masses, the people...
...Haiti has always been presented as a country of small property holders...
...I have no idea, but the very fact that he remains silent leaves the door open...
...administration, and the change in the :h outlook for Aristide's return...
...So I think there is more readiness from this administration to bring Aristide back, but under certain conditions-surrounded by foreign troops, and dependent on foreign protection...
...Since the coup, Dupuy has remained ambassador-at-large for Aristide's government in exile...
...The focus is no longer on the simple securing of raw materials...
...In fact, I think the ultimate goal of the United States is to get militarily involved in Haiti-to do it through international institutions like the OAS and the U.N...
...These countries lacked sufficient electricity, ports, roads, etc...
...the current political situation in Haiti...
...The United States could not accept the coup, Seven if they engineered the )up...
Vol. 27 • July 1993 • No. 1
