An Interview with Rigoberta Menchú Tum
editors, the NACLA
Rigoberta Menchu Turn, a Quich6 Maya, won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1992 in recognition of her work on behalf of indigenous peoples and poor ladinos in Guatemala. With the prize money, she...
...We all came out against it...
...In exile, I had begun to romanticize Guatemala a lot, to idealize it as the promised land...
...In the past, I have worked in concert with other opposition groups, the most militant compaiieros, but there comes a time when the population is so fragmented that it's wisest to play a unifying role...
...Soldiers indiscriminately kill civilians, and afterwards they are sheltered by their own institution because in the military tribunals, the judge who hears the case is a military officer, and the lawyers who contest it are part of the military...
...How can we control these sectors without provoking them to retaliate with more repression, kidnappings, and organized killings...
...The dismissals demonstrated that it is possible to confront an army like the one in Guatemala...
...Only by getting to know the country again would we figure out what our work should be and define the nature of the foundation...
...First, the compafieros don't really understand indigenous identity...
...You can't be both...
...It was intended to send a strong message against the return of refugees, against the peace process, and against the elections...
...There are several elements...
...On the day President Arzid was inaugurated, he cashiered nine army generals...
...But people are losing their fear of all this...
...We went to communities to talk with people about the importance of voting...
...We have had to carry out an alternative investigation to uncover the truth...
...We don't think that it's necessary to make a separate ministry for indigenous peoples to incorporate them...
...Nobody represents all the people...
...It is a minimal set of guidelines and standards, but very important NACILA REPORT ON THE AMERICAS 8UPDATE / GUATEMALA nonetheless...
...Some people feel proud to have weapons in their hands, and act like caciques who repress and threaten people...
...We have to be careful, however, not to commit the same errors that occurred after a peace accord was signed between the government and the Farabundo Marti National Liberation Front (FMLN) in El Salvador, when 80 or more former guerrillas and their supporters were killed...
...We are fighting so that this case is heard in a civilian court, not a military court...
...It became a great model of reconciliation in that zone...
...These lasi elections, in fact, generated a vacuum where there was no national political leadership and everything was in crisis...
...Now the human rights NGOs have to reconstruct their image, their role in the struggle against impunity, and their credibility...
...Is it the seizure of power by an armed insurgency through a revolution...
...There is still immense insecurity and serious human rights violations...
...I think that the prospects for the political opposition will be greater in the year 2000 than this year...
...Rios Montt's candidate Vol XXIX, No 6 MAY/JUNE 1996 7UPDATE / GUATEMALA was also supported by people involved in the civil-defense patrols and others who have benefited from the militarization of the country...
...It could have made a stronger showing had it begun campaigning earlier on rather than 15 days before the registration deadline...
...What do you think of the Guatemalan UN mission (MINUGUA), which is responsible for verifying the fulfillment of the global human rights accord signed by the government and the guerrillas in early 1994...
...Independently of what is decided at the negotiating table between the URNG and the government--even if they decide to give amnesty to all the assassins in Guatemala-we will not accept an amnesty, not for those killed at Xamin, not for Jorge Carpio, not for Myrna Mack, nor for any of the other cases before the courts...
...What do you think of the indigenous accord signed by the government and the guerrillas...
...Without a doubt, there are sectors of the military who are opposed to these activities...
...When faced with deciding between 10 quetzals and whether you believe that Rios Montt is the best candidate, the choice is straightforward for people with great needs...
...That would be a mistake...
...Army grenades were used...
...They were shot in cold blood...
...They just want to feel secure...
...The primary schools in fact are already functioning...
...Was it a problem of the local military troops or do you believe that the order for the massacre came from higher up...
...These mayoralties face the challenge of reflecting a pluricultural, multilingual, multiethnic country, which is, of course, what the government in general should look like...
...You are either a politician or a defender of human rights...
...In the national elections in 1990, 80% of the people abstained from voting...
...How will we heal these wounds...
...In early 1994, she returned to Guatemala after 13 years in exile in Mexico...
...Once the accord is signed, the greatest challenge that Guatemala will face is reconciliation...
...The armed conflict has become a cover for all kinds of violent and criminal acts...
...This high abstention rate reflects the lack of credibility and confidence in the system...
...We Guatemalans must have a vision that is more national, less sectoral, less sectarian...
...That's a pity because the Maya would be their natural allies...
...The question was how to integrate these two groups...
...The opposition didn't play the role it should have with respect to channeling the expectations of the people and opening up democratic spaces because they were afraid of this unfamiliar arena...
...Let me tell you the story...
...Early on, there were rumors that the opposition-the popular movements, the human rights organizations, the non-governmental organizations-would participate in the elections...
...The war has caused a lot of damage, it has divided communities, it has brought confrontation...
...Today, the patrols still exist but the problems are more localized...
...You can no longer simply say no to elections, no to the government, and no to the system...
...MenchO was interviewed in February in the foundation's New York office by the NACLA editors...
...Our message in the national campaign to promote citizen participation was: "Vote against fear...
...Military officers are not used to respecting the law, only giving orders...
...The democratization of the country is going to come from civic participation...
...Human rights groups will have to do this work...
...But when people say that Portillo garnered a lot of votes in the interior, it's important to remember that he didn't win even a majority of the vote...
...Since 1972, I have been involved in helping refugee communities in Mexico return to Guatemala...
...A lot of work must be done to struggle for constitutional reforms so that the Guatemalan Constitution reflects these pluriethnic, pluricultural, multilingual principles...
...The foundation launched the National Campaign for Civic Participation, a multilingual votereducation program...
...Do you believe that an amnesty should be part of that process of reconciliation ? Absolutely not...
...There was also a certain rejection of war...
...Rfos Montt spent three or four months making the rounds in each town in each region...
...The people patiently waited for us...
...How can we do so without it becoming the banner of a particular political party...
...I believe that option no longer exists...
...A more serious obstacle is how to control the armed forces as well as those who supposedly aren't army officers but have known ties to the army...
...People are also tired of political discussions, of ideologies...
...But abstaining from voting is not the solution...
...What is the role of human rights groups in the struggle against impunity ? There has to be a serious investigation into those responsible for human rights abuses...
...Today, we decided to make a contribution-however small-in challenging the judicial system and embarking on the path of justice...
...My desire to go back was so great that I decided to do it regardless of the risks...
...It's that I don't know what is meant by "left...
...Do you no longer consider yourself part of the left...
...We need guarantees that those involved in the conflict in Guatemala will not face reprisals once they lay down their weapons...
...I think that a peace agreement will be signed in the near future...
...ipated in the elections had overcome their fear of the civil-defense patrols, of the blackmail, of the military...
...An immense number of people are working to gain political power at the local level...
...In other words, soldiers continued to fire on them after they were already dead...
...We will all have to work together to identify those sectors, isolate them, and neutralize them...
...We decided not to align ourselves with any part of the opposition, whether traditional or nontraditional...
...The UN's presence assures people who present complaints that they won't be harmed...
...The returning refugees arrived on October 8, 1994...
...But I would like to see the UN not only receive complaints and publish them in exhaustive reports, but also get involved in finding a solution, in punishing those responsible, in bringing justice to Guatemala...
...Yes, I believe that the massacre was politically motivated...
...It's possible that the FDNG will consolidate itself, develop a stronger base, pursue a policy of alliances, and have a wider vision of what is happening in the country...
...These people will have an important role to play in future administrations...
...But a few days ago, the court of appeals again ruled in our favor...
...The Ministry of Defense and all the other ministries would be in the hands of nonindigenous people, and there would be a tiny bureaucratic office for Maya peoples...
...We are talking about the role of the military in society...
...We never thought that there would be a massacre...
...We helped establish a process of dialogue between them to show how they could live with each other...
...Rather, they should be an integral part of the political system...
...When you arrive at this stage, normally it smooths the way for the signing of a peace accord...
...How did you perceive your role in the December 1995 national elections...
...What are the obstacles to moving into the national arena...
...Such a program would also have to assist displaced people...
...We believe that we have all the evidence we need...
...The civil-defense patrols in the countryside, for example, are not the same as those first implemented by Efrain Rios Montt during his dictatorship in the early 1980s...
...The seeds are there...
...The day when these women participate, they are going to make changes, they will elect better authorities...
...They had volunteers who went house-to-house to talk to families...
...The current government is profoundly non-indigenous...
...This is a very big crisis that we will have to confront...
...At the same time, I don't believe that a peace agreement will bring about paradise either...
...Everyone justifies everything under the pretext that there is an armed conflict...
...The elections caused a setback in human rights work because everyone got involved in the elections...
...What are we ultimately confronting...
...How do you explain the strong support that Alfonso Portillo-ex-dictator Rios Montt's stand-in in the presidential race--had in indigenous areas...
...I have the impression that the peace process has entered into a stage of political negotiation...
...In Guatemala, there is a significant number of professional women and men who are indigenous...
...There were threats against the judges, against the lawyers, against the prosecutors in the Attorney General's office...
...I had the opportunity to unite many more people and sectors than any presidential candidate or any political party...
...We are the only foundation that works in this zone...
...Do you think that the peace process can produce real social change in Guatemala...
...More than 50 people were wounded...
...What do you think of the New Guatemala Democratic Front (FDNG), the new left-of-center political party...
...I decided to go back because I wanted the headquarters of the Rigoberta Menchd Tum Foundation to be in Guatemala...
...The moment that the war officially ends, I think it will become much easier to fight this crime wave...
...We have said "no, no, no" to the system for years...
...In the investigation, however, the military has refused to admit this...
...There are people who have made their living from the war...
...It was terrible...
...Their electoral campaign was much more elaborate than any other party as well...
...For example, numerous civic committees participated in the December, 1995 elections...
...Many people are kidnapped and killed on a daily basis...
...I wanted to reconnect with the land, to find out how the popular movement was doing, and in particular, to understand the situation of indigenous peoples and their struggle...
...For a year, we looked for land and credit for that community...
...It's the first time that ordinary citizens have become involved in a lawsuit against the army...
...We had absolutely no relationship with any of the 24 political parties that took part in the elections, or with the 19 presidential candidates...
...We also have to establish mechanisms to control the private security forces and the weapons and munitions companies, many of which are owned by retired generals...
...With indigenous issues, you can't apply Western concepts of party militancy-in other words, that you are with me or against me...
...I thought that my role as Nobel laureate should be to dedicate myself to civic education, teaching people about their rights as citizens...
...To be sincere, I have to say that if the FDNG hopes to be successful, it will have to take up indigenous rights and identity in a much deeper way...
...The struggle against impunity must continue whether or not there is an armed conflict...
...For example, 50% of women in Guatemala in rural areas aren't even registered to vote...
...I think so...
...You can no longer simply say no to elections, no to the government, no to the system...
...It was a moment to say no to the war...
...If they continue to deal with indigenous issues as they have up to now, they will become like any other political party in the country...
...It can be a very beautiful, very poetic document but it won't do any good unless it is part of the official laws of the country...
...There are two sectors missing in this administration: women and indigenous people...
...In Quetzaltenango, Guatemala's second-largest city, the municipal council is made up of an equal number of men and women, of youth and old people...
...Yet things are not as bad as they were 15 years ago...
...Maya organizations have traditionally organized at the local level...
...In many places, they bought votes...
...What is the alternative in Guatemala...
...The appeals court ruled that the military tribunals don't have the authority to deal with the case of Xamdn...
...I have a much wider space than that to operate in...
...Eleven people were killed, and three children were shot in the back...
...So Catholics would feel disappointed and say that I was sectarian if I supported the evangelicals, and vice versa...
...All the routine human rights work was put to the side...
...We began to rebuild the area...
...The choice was between a militaristic, fundamentalist regime and Alvaro Arzi, who is a wealthy aristocrat...
...We need to begin to erase the boundaries that divide us...
...I recognize that the UN has a specific mandate that limits its options...
...Anyone who scoffed at the electoral process was running up against a budding democracy at the local level...
...How have things changed...
...The UN's presence in different parts of the country has reduced the repression of the civil-defense patrols and the army...
...So now we are dedicated to making people aware of the importance of participation...
...That proposal shows that the FDNG has not really grasped the plurilingual and multiethnic nature of Guatemala...
...All of their testimonies have been clearly aimed at absolving the military of any institutional involvement in the massacre...
...With the prize money, she established a foundation in her name to continue the same work...
...The conditions are not the same as before...
...How can we ensure that the process of reconciliation does not turn into a freefor-all that opens up old national wounds...
...The UN has an important role to play in Guatemala...
...The public ministry has to investigate those incidents...
...Do you think that participation in electoral politics is the way to democratize the state in Guatemala...
...I think that the financial resources of the Rfos Montt campaign played a role as well...
...I believe that we wouldn't be alive to tell this story if we had challenged a massacre in this way a few years ago...
...The majority of council members are indigenous people...
...For example, we are fighting hard right now in the case of the massacre in Xamdin on October 5 of last year...
...Her decision not to take sides in the election angered some in the Guatemalan left, with whom she had collaborated in the 1980s...
...For me, for a long time now, those old labels have been problematic, not only in Guatemala but throughout the world...
...Unfortunately, there really weren't alternatives in the elections...
...In anticipation of the December, 1995 national elections, her foundation launched a National Campaign for Civic Participation, a non-partisan effort to encourage women and indigenous people to vote...
...First of all, the evangelical churches directed their followers to vote for Portillo...
...We really guarded our autonomy...
...Our fight against military impunity is yesterday, today and tomorrow...
...Until now, all the military officers that we have called on to testify in the military court have declared absolutely nothing...
...Unfortunately, the official autopsy was a cover-up...
...I asked myself when the security conditions would be better for my return...
...You learn by getting your feet wet...
...Because of that protection, they commit crimes without any scruples...
...People don't believe in the political parties and state institutions because so many promises have been left unfulfilled and because there is a lot of corruption...
...A Nobel laureate can't aspire to be a member of parliament, much less a cabinet minister...
...How are we Guatemalans going to reconcile our many differences...
...I understand what is meant by political opposition, but not of the left or the right...
...When a person is being investigated, his hands become tied, and it's harder to act with impunity...
...They claim that the 26 soldiers acted in selfdefense, but it is clear that they intend to let them take the rap...
...When we decide to incorporate ourselves within that system, obviously we won't be familiar with certain ways of maneuvering...
...Recently the FDNG proposed creating an indigenous ministry in Guatemala...
...History Residents of Todos Santos Cuchumatin in northwestern Guatemala line up to vote in municipal elections...
...They said that they were going to be tough on crime, that they were going to execute all the criminals...
...Many of those killed received coups de grdce...
...But the time is propitious to work in this way now...
...These people are sheltered by the military institution...
...For so many years, we've abstained from political involvement, but we haven't achieved anything that way...
...But I think that since it was the first time they participated in electoral politics, they have a great opportunity to revise their approach to many issues...
...People have more opportunities to denounce human rights violations with the certainty that their confidentiality will be respected...
...has been written, the social debt exists...
...W at motivated you to return to Guatemala in 1994...
...That said, I would like to see the UN do more...
...I think that the same thing would have happened with the opposition in any other country...
...In the process, I had lost sight of so many things...
...I believe the FDNG has an important role to play in the political opposition...
...Also, we will need programs to help reintegrate former guerrillas into civilian life...
...As a consequence, he became much better known than the other presidential candidates...
...What are the chief obstacles to signing and implementing a peace accord...
...We are preparing a strong case...
...What law can they pass that will assure me that those things will never occur again...
...In Xamin, there were 50 families who were involved in the civildefense patrols, and 200 families who were returning from exile...
...I think it was good that the FDNG participated in the elections because nothing will change as long as you only look in from the outside and don't get involved...
...We broadcast information on 43 radio stations and two television stations...
...The Maya organizations had gained quite a bit of influence in many places as well...
...The theme of reconciliation is so profound, it goes beyond being rich or poor...
...The state is profoundly ladino, and lacks channels for indigenous participation...
...There are places where less than 10% of the people voted...
...In an earlier era, if such a massacre had occurred, all of us would have run away or, at most, organized a large demonstration to protest, and nothing would have happened...
...The Foundation is helping to provide basic and secondary education...
...Over two years ago, we began to prepare the return from Mexico of the Vol XXIX, No 6 MAY/JUNE 1996 9UPDATE / GUATEMALA exile community from Xamin in the department of Alta Verapaz...
...The civic committees which particNACIAREPORT ON THE AMERICAS 5 a 6UPDATE / GUATEMALA "Conditions in Guatemala are not the same as before...
...We held meetings and workshops in 30 important regions of the country...
...We have to begin to name names, to identify who is responsible for the repression...
...Without the UN here, I don't know if it would have been possible to carry out the kind of activities we have in the recent elections...
...We all realize that the municipalities are the best places to gain a foothold in the political system...
...What the accord lacks is how it will be translated into national law...
...I greatly respect the work done by the popular organizations, the trade unions, etc., but I don't put a label on them...
...Presidents such as Vinicio Cerezo and Ramiro de Le6n Carpio, far from firing generals, would have decorated them with more honors...
...Because it would be returning to apartheid in Guatemala...
...I consider myself part of the opposition, an opposition that has a role to play in proposing alternatives...
...In retrospect, I don't think it was a mistake...
...Therefore, it was also a very direct message to me and the foundation...
...Rfos Montt and his people manipulated the concept of internal security...
...Then, they were run by bloody and ruthless killers who controlled the population...
...It's not enough to tell my story, that they killed my mother, that they tortured my brother, that they burned my father to death, that they burned down my house...
Vol. 29 • May 1996 • No. 6
