WEARING DOWN THE ENEMY An Interview with the FMLN
Ibarra, Epigmenio
FMLN commander Ana Guadalupe Martinez, of the People's Revolutionary Army (ERP), was interviewed in Panama on June 27, eight days after an FMLN commando unit killed four U.S. Marines relaxing...
...From there, to try to separate the people from the FMLN and give a cover to their military plan which is to annihilate the FMLN...
...But if they lose a pilot, then they'll have to train a new one...
...Rather, it's precisely to wear out the army's human resources as they move in any area of the country, and this means, well, to inflict casualties, to kill and wound them, to make it difficult for them to move around...
...The army wants to start using smaller units themselves, so that instead of two batallions they would have ten units dispersed throughout the terrain, making the mobility of our smaller units more difficult...
...As if a shift in terrain were enough to ensure success...
...In the last year and a half, they have lived a very tranquil life, waging war during the week and then going out dancing on weekends, to nightclubs-able to forget the situation our country is living and refresh themselves to begin anew on Monday...
...In the beginning, it wasn't easy, because the combatant's mentality is linked to the [large-unit tactics] and, like it or not, this creates the mentality of a regular army...
...They'll have to become more.'indiscriminate...
...With the decision of the U.S...
...advisers there are in El Salvador, the more likely they are to be reached by our guns...
...And this will force them to increase their reFMLN in Morazan: "the prolongation of the conflict is an integral part of our response to counterinsurgency...
...In fact, they have not been able to implement their plans to control the cities, and they want to mask that failure by calling Zona Rosa a terrorist operation...
...cruitment efforts that now center on the poorest sectors and the peasants...
...They even say that within three years, you will be defeated or at least dramatically weakened...
...They say it's because we're unable to win in the mountains, so we've turned to "terrorist acts" in the cities...
...But they still lack the capacity to adopt this guerrilla warfare in response to our already developed tactics...
...What has this meant...
...Also, as we wear the army down, they'll have problems replacing their losses or expanding their ranks to cover the national territory...
...Because right now, with smaller units-and they can range in size from two compafieros to a platoon of 25 or a column of 100-we can't expect to force an entire army batallion or company to surrender...
...So Reagan's latest move means only a shifting of supplies from U.S...
...Q: You've said that the military victories resulting from the large-unit tactics boosted the morale of the masses and gave them confidence...
...A third important element was making our Q: So is the army fighting you -as if you were still concentrating .your forces...
...Deputy Minister of Public Security] L6pez Nuila should be ashamed of the fact that the FMLN was able to carry out an action that should have been impossible, under his very nose, in the most luxurious and most protected zone in the country...
...This is the global counterinsurgency plan that the North Americans have designed for El Salvador...
...They've had to come out and voice their demands for basic needs and even demand punishment of those responsible for so many deaths and assassinations...
...Q: How do you react to the government's description of the Zona Rosa killings as a sign of desperation, a terrorist act...
...At one point, the presence of the FMLN, its actions and its successes were a vital symbol of hope for many sectors that had been terribly hard-hit by the repression...
...It's no longer the same audacity, no longer the same concept...
...So that whole apparatus is now being aimed at terrorizing the civilian population...
...Marines relaxing over drinks in the Zona Rosa, a strip of nightclubs and restaurants in one of the most luxurious neighborhoods in the capital...
...What do they mean by humanizing the war...
...Whenever the army has sent its small units deep into our territory, it's suffered defeats...
...It is not the FMLN that creates the crisis or eases the crisis, that causes the mass movement to expand or contract...
...For example, the army has been saying that the movement of the FMLN into the western provinces-which demonstrates the organizational advances of the war on a national level-proves that we've failed in the east...
...As we've varied our strategy, all that technology-the air war, the helicopter-borne troops, the spy planes--has become relatively useless against smaller units...
...Well, to develop a series of demagogic projects, both economic and political, to make people think that the situation has changed and that armed struggle is no longer justified...
...Secondly, they would need capable and motivated officers to lead all these smaller units...
...A: Look, the same criteria that were used in the past to demonstrate the FMLN's strength are now being used to demonstrate its weakness...
...When two armies confront each other, to deny the development of one is to say, well, we've already won the war...
...But that does not mean that the army is winning the war...
...Because even though we have dispersed our forces, that doesn't mean we've lost the ability to reconcentrate them...
...Because today we produce one death, tomorrow two wounded and the day after maybe there's a confrontation with no casualties at all...
...They will be targets of the FMLN wherever they are, just as we are targets of the army, the [death] squads and the security forces wherever we are...
...First they tried the route of indiscriminate repression, and our people refused to surrender...
...Well, they've realized that the repressive, anti-popular and simplistic schemes don't work and they've had to modify their whole way of thinking...
...That situation is coming to an end: they are not going to move around with impunity anymore...
...As for the number of advisers, we have said that the more U.S...
...And that will make it possible for our forces to find them...
...First, because the FMLN has changed tactics and therefore the elements that were used to judge the effectiveness and success of one set of tactics are no longer useful...
...What does exist is a readjustment, a reaccommodation in order to better confront the FMLN...
...Q: Many people interpret what is happening in El Salvador as a democratic opening...
...Rather, it's the reality of the country itself, the root causes of instability, of crisis, of repression that make the movement develop...
...In other words, what they're trying to do, by delegitimating our recent actions, is to create more favorable conditions for their own military, political and economic plans...
...And this has created an image of change and professionalism that doesn't really exist in the heart of the armed forces...
...And the change in mentality of the guerrilla unit, which has to learn to rely on itself, to act as both political cadre and combatant at the same time, to survive in isolation-all this has to be a gradual process...
...First of all, they say they want to win the hearts and minds of the people...
...But if we add up the daily casualties, we get militants and everyone who participates with the FMLN understand that the prolongation of the conflict is an integral part of our response to the counterinsurgency policy of the army and the United States...
...If this is true, will the development of the popular movement make the armed struggle no longer valid...
...Because he says that he's going to speed up the delivery of economic and military aid already approved by the Congress...
...They're fighting the war on all levels-political, economic, military and international, with the United States acting as the unpaid ambassador of the Salvadorean government...
...And the main objective of these smaller units is not exactly to take prisonREPORT ON THE AMERICAS 4ers, or to recover guns, or to defeat large army units...
...It's not a very logical mentality...
...Right now, the tactic is dispersion, the deployment of smaller units throughout the national territory...
...We believe this is an incorrect analysis...
...It's more difficult to use infra-reds to locate our small units and the C-47s are only effective against medium-sized or large concentrations...
...A: Well, we believe that Reagan's instant reaction showed how much confusion the action provoked...
...Then there is the issue of our return to the cities...
...Q: You can't deny, then, that the army has advanced and become more professional...
...This new tactic gives the impression that you are defeated, a feeling that is reinforced by the army's psychological operations...
...In the past, the FMLN developed the ability to concentrate its forces and with that capacity, we were able to hit and even annihilate important army positions, take prisoners, capture weapons...
...Why...
...There is one thing that we cannot accept and that is the notion that the FMLN is the cause of the resurgence of the mass movement...
...A: Of course, it's part of their psychological warfare to try to stand reality on its head...
...Q: What role does the army's modem technology have in this new type of warfare...
...That's why we can't understand the army's logic in saying that the FMLN is falling apart, because then they're denying their own development...
...The most recent case is near the Honduran border in Morazdn, in the area of Nahuaterique and Sabanetas, where the army is using C47s, A-37s, helicopter transports, those famous "baby" Hughes 500s that just arrived...
...What are the main elements of this new project...
...We're not talking about a big operation every six months, we're talking about daily actions with no spectacular results...
...But no, as human beings they will have to move around, they will have to try to live a supposedly normal life in the midst of a war...
...So these three elements--the rethinking, the reaccommodation, the change in mentality and the material and tactical adjustments-have allowed us to gradually respond to the army...
...The movement has re-emerged precisely because of the popular masses' own need to struggle for survival...
...Q: What impact do you think these actions will have on the dialogue process begun at La Palma...
...Of course, we do not expect optimal results right away...
...In the first place, it would force them to give up the technology they've acquired...
...A: First, it meant the need for a total rethinking of the tactics the FMLN had been developing...
...In other words, the army's need to respond to the development of our forces is precisely what has forced them and, above all, the North Americans, to revise their previous tactics...
...And the third and most important element is the FMLN's ability to reconcentrate its forces, which would make the army's small units vulnerable...
...It's really more of a propaganda move than anything else, because the army has never suffered defeats for lack of ammunition...
...and to prevent the people that live there from giving support to the FMLN...
...How has it affected you...
...Q: Actions such as the one in the Zona Rosa could lead to a more direct confrontation with the United States...
...It's the old theory of "draining the sea" by every means possible, including terror...
...We believe that each time they have to respond to our tactics, it is one more defensive step to avoid being defeated by the FMLN...
...For them, humanization of the war means a series of unilateral measures on the part of the FMLN, such as an end to economic sabotage, an end to alleged terrorist acts in their own rearguard, a stop to the destruction of buildings such as city halls...
...So they have to send a whole batallion in, because if they come in with just a platoon or a company, the FMLN immediately regroups, and a guerrilla squad becomes a guerrilla column that can easily wipe out or surround a smaller unit...
...no troops have surrendered because they lacked guns...
...So that is the basic element for us to develop...
...A: Look, you also have to consider the development of the mass movement...
...A: We do not accept the most recent thesis being used by the North American administration, the press and the High Command, that these types of actions endanger the dialogue because the FMLN is not interested in making progress toward humanizing the war...
...Why...
...In other words, this would open up a whole new contradiction with sectors that up to now have not been directly affected by the war...
...a number that's as high or even higher than the results of our previous [largeunit] tactic...
...A: To deny the development of the army is to deny our own development...
...The army has always had the material means to fight-in abundance...
...But do they really believe that filling up the warehouses in El Salvador will increase the capacity of the army...
...What does that mean...
...the new tactic has to develop...
...We believe that with this new tactic we are striking precisely at their Achilles' heel, which is the long-term impossibility of supporting a war without having to touch other sectors which are going to immediately reject the notion of becoming cannon fodder, as the popular sectors have become...
...And it's in this period that the army cries victory, saying that the FMLN is defeated, that it can't respond to the technological, human and material development of the army...
...These were useful parameters 'with which to measure the previous tactic...
...But this situation has not remained static...
...The result was more than 50,000 dead in that period...
...if they lose one airplane, tomorrow they'll get two...
...Their objective is to depopulate the area, to make it easier for the Honduran army to cross the border if necessary and support the Salvadorean army...
...warehouses to Salvadorean warehouses...
...Today, while the masses are still under pressure from the intelligence apparatus, from this and that, they have had to rearticulate their organizations...
...In other words, it is a very complex plan, not a simple one...
...government to give unconditional aid, we JULY/AUGUST 1985 5know that if they lose one gun today, they'll be given 400 tomorrow...
...They want to reduce the war to a direct military confrontation between their army and ours, in total isolation, so that it becomes a test of one side's resources against the other's...
...Q: There's a sense of optimism these days within the army...
...A: At this moment, the army hasn't found, or rather they haven't developed (because we haven't let them), a response to our small-unit tactics...
...What follows are excerpts of an extensive inerview conducted by Epigmenio Ibarra, a Central America correspondent for NOTIMEX, the Mexican state news agency...
...President Reagan has already announced an increase in aid...
...That was in 1981 and 1982, toward the end of the period of terror, genocide and deathsquad activities against the organized, urban movement...
...And the war in El Salvador isn't won yet...
...So what was previously used to define success isn't useful now...
...A: We've always said that the apparent democratic opening is a requirement of the counterinsurgency project itself, and not a genuine desire to see an end to repression...
...Q: How do you evaluate the counterinsurgency strategy, the new mentality within the army, since the end of 1983...
...Unless they come and shut themselves in a house, or just go from home to work and back, or unless they live and work in the same place...
...Second, once all the basic elements of our response were in place, it meant changes in the thinking of the commanders, the combatants and all the militants...
...They'll have to do what they tried once before: forced recruitment, or rather a legal draft affecting all sectors of the population, which immediately sparked a negative reaction from the middle sectors, who even began to search for ways to get their children out of the country...
...Of course, they have not ruled out the possibility of going back to that type of project, but the negative results in El Salvador-and a revision of the methods developed in Vietnam-have made them take a different tack...
...Why...
...Nine others were killed in the spray of gunfire, although the FMLN claims that "armed elements dressed as civilians" in the restaurant were responsible for their deaths...
...A: Well, the technology that the North Americans provided to the army was aimed at countering our tactic of concentration of forces...
Vol. 19 • July 1985 • No. 4
