MOMENT Interviews Arab Merchant Eld Kwasmi
MOMENT Interviews Arab Merchant EidKwasmi A seller of glass and pottery shares his fears—and hopes for better times The following interview with EidKwasmi took place on March 16, 1988, in...
...They ask them to quit and they quit, because most of the Palestinians, even a policeman, even if the situation is a little bit sad for the policeman, they hope for the future...
...EK: Who believes in violence...
...EK: I don't know...
...Give me a solution...
...His father [who lives there] has 16 children—10 boys and 6 girls...
...HS: You told me the other day that Israel really taught you about democracy, taught the Arabs about democracy and freedom...
...It has been changing because now the Arabs have accepted Israel...
...That's one of my cousins who lives in Hebron...
...You understand...
...They were scared at the beginning of the uprising...
...We are waiting...
...So Israel has to start, to say to Arafat, "You want the Palestinians' rights...
...HS: It would help a lot if there were someone who spoke for the Palestinians, who would say, "We're willing to recognize Israel and we want a state of our own in part of the West Bank...
...And more...
...I wish to find a way of understanding and having feelings together more...
...EK: As a Palestinian, I want my rights, but that doesn't mean that I want Haifa or Jerusalem...
...HS: But most Palestinians reject Hussein...
...That's all I know...
...It happened because of a lot of things that have happened between the Arabs and the Israelis...
...HS: Do you think that's unfair...
...This completely has been finished, this kind of, of throwing Israel into the sea or the Jews into the sea, or whatever...
...HS: What do the Palestinians want...
...EK: Really, as a matter of fact, I have a very good relation with a lot of Israelis...
...Then, I think some of the Palestinians thought that they have to end the occupation...
...I remember one day in Ramallah the Israeli soldiers opened the shops and no one took from the shops, not'even the gold shop which was open and nobody touched it...
...Nothing...
...We are fighting with a small thing called stones...
...Do you want us to start collecting chocolates, candies, and throw them at the soldiers...
...they are not the agricultural people you remember from before...
...I want to live inside the 1967 line, to live as a Palestinian who has his flag and his passport...
...I want to ask the whole Jewish nation: ' 'What's going to happen...
...HS: Do you consider yourself a Palestinian moderate...
...HS: How far would you go in listening to the Palestinian leadership...
...So they come and destroy his house in Hebron...
...HS: Do you think Arafat is a moderate Palestinian...
...HS: You don't buy meat anymore...
...Even the Israeli Arabs are not allowed to talk a lot...
...Peres...
...Even if Arafat says or doesn't say [it], Israel is established, and Israel has the power...
...During the 20 years that we are under occupation, people started to think of themselves as Palestinian...
...Because there are different ways of supporting it...
...HS: You don't think Arafat should say that he recognizes Israel...
...EK: Do you need this word from the Palestinians to recognize Israel...
...EK: That was in Qabatiyeh...
...EK: Let me think...
...All the Israeli parties fight among themselves—the Likud, the Ma'arach, Ratz, all these...
...EK: Not everything...
...HS: Why...
...They are happy within it...
...I ask you as a Jew...
...EK: In which way do I support it...
...But I'm afraid for the future...
...Now the Palestinians are intelligent...
...We are fighting with a small thing called stones...
...If there is no solution, it will not change the feelings of the Palestinians...
...What I feel as a man who lives in this country is that I want my rights as a Palestinian, just as the Jewish people have their rights...
...HS: But that's not what the Palestinian leaders say...
...EK: Yes...
...It goes back 1,300 years...
...Country always comes first...
...Some people still remember it...
...HS: What don't you follow...
...If there is no solution, it will not change the feelings of the Palestinians...
...EK: If you asked me Israel or Jordan, I prefer Jordan...
...They are ready to live with the 1967 line and to live together as a good neighbor...
...Since 1948, nobody has relaxed in his life...
...You have a shop in Jerusalem, you're a merchant, you're highly respected, you're the leader of a large family...
...Before that I have a little bit of money that I could eat with...
...Not a penny...
...It's a big country...
...EK: I never have felt that I was punished, because I never did anything bad against Israel...
...You can travel between France and Germany with no policemen sitting in the area...
...Does he think differently from you...
...HS: Are you afraid of retaliation against Palestinians who've cooperated with Israel...
...No way else...
...When I feel as a Palestinian, I feel that Jerusalem is in a way occupied...
...But most of them work for the welfare of Israel...
...But we want to relax...
...EK: I don't know...
...If you don't make any political things or harm the Israelis or kill'any of them or hit any of them, nobody will hit you...
...You attacked in '56...
...And we hope by this the Israelis would understand that we need something...
...He was a spy...
...And I still have a life, but I have to control it...
...EK: Nobody knows who killed him...
...EK: I am not a politician to tell you that...
...The Israelis are so scared to tell the Palestinians that they have rights in this country...
...It's a matter of justice...
...I wish both nations would find a solution...
...EK: I don't support anybody—whoever gives me my rights, I support him...
...HS: Think...
...You don't have to work, you're so rich...
...Most of the problems have been coming from people who have suffered more than my son...
...HS: Do you think the stone throwing will stop...
...And I appreciate that...
...We have to live together as good neighbors...
...EK: I do, because it's good to be a Palestinian moderate, but a Palestinian is a Palestinian...
...With no money paying...
...They are the same nationality, the same religion...
...Look at France and Germany...
...We are ready to agree about the Palestinian rights and we'll come to talk to each other...
...We need a step, a step to be finished with this kind of thing...
...You live in Jerusalem, don't you...
...EK: The Israelis say that Jerusalem has become part of it...
...EK: We are not using guns...
...Arafat or the Israeli people...
...HS: What's going to happen when there are no policemen on the West Bank...
...ifli...
...HS: Why was he killed...
...HS: How about your son...
...These people have lost everything...
...But I feel things are going to get worse and worse...
...EK: It's a big family...
...Even in 1929...
...The Palestinian is asking for justice...
...This man wasn't a policeman...
...HS: Are you in favor of killing collaborators...
...EK: What I don't follow, I am not a believer in throwing stones at the army...
...In obeying them...
...HS: You support Peres...
...They also know how to make war...
...That's only a generation ago...
...EK: I don't know...
...HS: Your fellow Arabs...
...EK: At the beginning, maybe 5 percent, or maybe 10 percent...
...Autonomy...
...HS: But you didn't give me any instance in which you felt oppressed or mistreated because you were an Arab...
...HS: How do you assure that this Arab state will live as a good neighbor...
...EK: None of the Palestinians believe in violence...
...HS: Well isn't that good...
...And we hope for the future...
...HS: You were telling me the other day about a terrorist whose house was blown up...
...EK: I want to ask you as a Jew, as an American, even as a moderate man, what's the future for the Palestinian...
...EK: I am not a politician...
...EK: We have to find something...
...They have their charter that they want to get rid of Israel . . . EK: I think this is a stage that has been finished...
...But I think he has still another side...
...My son has been born in the democracy of Israel...
...We are not using guns...
...HS: Are you in favor of the resignation of the Palestinian policemen who police the West Bank...
...The Palestinians also want to relax...
...HS: You have very good relations with the Israelis...
...EK: Little bit...
...HS: But Jerusalem has become a part of Israel now, hasn't it...
...But the people feel that these people are against their own people so they want to finish them...
...Over three months now...
...EK: Really, I don't know...
...But to punish 16 people and to destroy a house that has 16 people, I think this is little bit not fair...
...As I hear, he was responsible for killing this man...
...EK: Me...
...EK: First, the Israelis have to say to Arafat or to the Palestinian people that we are ready to give you the rights you ask for...
...I have to control my life, to buy food which is less expensive than I used to spend before...
...EK: Around 390 people...
...EK: Yes, I have very good Israeli friends...
...Sometimes they write that you have to throw stones or put a Palestinian flag on your house...
...They will still want an independent state, to be free, to have a country of their own...
...EK: As I hear, they just punished him because of one of the people who was killed in the Old City...
...Every day I'm listening to the radio and I am saying, I wish a new thing will be happening, a new thing to change the atmosphere, to change the feelings...
...EK:Just one minute...
...Peres, has to find a solution for us...
...You call him a moderate...
...EK: Yes...
...They know how to negotiate...
...EK: Well, I'm not so scared because, as I hear, since the uprising there isn't a lot of stealing in the West Bank...
...EK: I think they do what the PLO tells them...
...I have to control it...
...Even though all the things you hear about Arafat...
...EK: You don't have to blame the Arabs for what happened in 1929...
...It looks like an inside war between groups of Palestinians, so we guess...
...EK: It's good, but we are missing one of the most important things in the world...
...EK: Freedom is more expensive than everything you are talking about...
...But the other side, like Mr...
...MOMENT Interviews Arab Merchant EidKwasmi A seller of glass and pottery shares his fears—and hopes for better times The following interview with EidKwasmi took place on March 16, 1988, in Jerusalem...
...You will not take this from the heart of the Palestinians...
...But I'm not saying that I'm one of the people who believes in things like that...
...It will be sad days for us...
...HS: But how about your brothers who believe in violence...
...There is a different way of acting between being a Jew in Israel and being an Arab in Israel...
...Do you understand me...
...HS: Do you support the current uprisings among the Palestinians...
...When somebody is guilty, you can't punish the whole family for it...
...But it's something that happened without anybody's controlling it...
...Now I send them to schools which are without paying money...
...I will say welcome to King Hussein if he has a way to [work] with the PLO...
...I want a solution...
...How are you going to live...
...I understand them...
...Using stones is to make the soldiers or the Israeli government tired...
...EK: For myself in Israel...
...We study that...
...But I know that there is democracy and this is good, but [so far it's] for the Jews...
...If there is no independent state for the Palestinians, the last paper in their hands is the throwing of stones and to have a revolution inside Israel...
...And the Palestinians are so scared to say that Israel exists...
...EK: I think so...
...That's what I believe...
...So as to make the Israelis get a little bit tired of us...
...And Israel has to start this because Israel has the country...
...HS: What's going to happen...
...We have the same ideas...
...If the Israelis want to talk with Jordan, for me it doesn't matter...
...HS: Do you think they're going to get freedom this way...
...And you attacked in '73...
...I used to teach my children in private schools...
...Then what happens...
...It will be sad, I think...
...HS: I asked you what personal oppression you felt...
...HS: An Arab policeman who was cooperating with Israel was killed and strung up on an electric pole...
...What if it goes on months and months and months...
...HS: Yes...
...But all the Palestinians dream of ending the occupation by Israel and living with the Israelis like a good neighbor...
...EK: Then I start praying to God...
...EK: As I said, I am not a politician, but this is the last paper that Arafat holds in his hand...
...When somebody has cooperated with the Israelis, if the people want to finish him, let them do that...
...We are thinking about freedom...
...I don't know...
...He cooperated with Israel...
...We are losing a lot...
...The PLO charter says that they want all of Palestine, they don't want any Israel to exist...
...EK: I sell Hebron glass and pottery...
...And his house was destroyed...
...It's an uprising of anger more than having a purpose...
...EK: I don't think so, but maybe they will get tired and they will quit doing things like that...
...EK: I live in Jerusalem, the Old City, and I feel myself under the occupation, yes...
...EK: Mr...
...Maybe not all of them are happy now because of what is happening now...
...I am saying that's enough...
...I think the end has to be soon...
...HS: Has your income been reduced since the uprising...
...But I think tomorrow will be bright for both nations because we have to understand each other...
...HS: Do you think the Palestinians would be satisfied with a state of their own on the West Bank...
...After all, you attacked them in '48...
...Then everything will be rolling and moving...
...HS: How has the occupation oppressed you personally...
...HS: How big is the Kwasmi family...
...HS: Who...
...EK: Really if I'm going to be fair I would like to tell you that I am so grateful about the democracy of Israel which I see the Israelis [enjoy], but not the Arabs...
...HS: Yes...
...HS:OneoftheKwasmiswasamayor . . . EK: A mayor of Hebron...
...HS: What's going to happen...
...This we are fighting...
...Do they want Haifa and Jaffa...
...HS: Whatever they say you follow...
...EK: I make nothing since the uprising...
...We want to relax just like the Jewish people...
...EK: First of all, the Palestinians have been angry a lot...
...We have to find a solution for both nations...
...HS: Do you think there's an overall plan now to the Palestinian uprising...
...They were at war with each other and they are good neighbors now...
...They remember these things and they say it's a short time...
...I am not allowed to say anything...
...We have feelings together...
...All that I know is what's in the papers...
...EK: You are welcome, sir...
...HS: Who controls the uprising now...
...Hershel Shanks: Eid [pronounced A-eed], we've known each other for a number of years...
...It will be sad...
...Israel is established...
...EK: Yes...
...EK: I don't think so...
...HS: You have stopped buying meat...
...EK: And if you ask me, Jordan or Palestinian, I'd prefer Palestinian...
...In our situation we are not thinking of the economy or money or that people are stealing...
...Two times a month, that possibly happens, but no more...
...Very little...
...HS: What if it gets worse...
...I wish I knew what tomorrow will be...
...But now, most of the Palestinians are with the uprising...
...And he finds himself sitting in a tent outside in the mud, with the sand, with nothing to dream about...
...You will not take this from the heart of the Palestinians...
...You should only punish the man who did this thing...
...EK: Yes...
...Who has to give...
...I don't want people to be killed...
...At the beginning it had no purpose or aims...
...HS: Don't you think the Palestinians are creating problems for themselves because they're not going to have fuel, they're not going to have money, they're not going to have policemen, they're not going to have civil administration...
...HS: In different states...
...EK: I think so...
...HS: Okay...
...If they have a good understanding together, then I say to Jordan, welcome...
...So people are scared...
...When I start selling my car, my frigidaire, my television, then I say I am poor...
...HS: What is the geographical area the Palestinians want...
...The Palestinians are educated...
...EK: The West Bank...
...At the beginning they think that this will be one day or two days or three days or something like that...
...Anything...
...HS: Do you think some Palestinians don't want to go as far as their leadership, but resign as policemen or close their shop because they feel that if they don't listen to the Palestinian leadership, they will be punished...
...But a friendship is different from a country...
...I wish you understand that...
...He's saying that we have now to think about finding a solution...
...I'm not a man of violence...
...HS: What if this doesn't work...
...I can't say...
...These people accept their punishment and it's finished...
...It isn't exactly for me to do it because really I believe in peace more than I believe in this kind of thing...
...I know a lot of them...
...I have a feeling with them more...
...The Israelis remember when Jews were living in Hebron in 1929 and they were killed by the Arabs...
...You attacked in '67...
...The Israelis have democracy for the Jews, but not for the Arabs...
...They are educated now...
...I stopped buying meat...
...The Palestinians act maybe in violence...
...Israel has been a good teacher for me, if only they would give this democracy to the Palestinians too...
...I don't want to be hard about this, but most of the Arabs say that Begin and Shamir were terrorists before 1948...
...HS: So you've learned from the Israelis...
...EK: All of them are Palestinians...
...Before it was uncontrolled, but'now it's controlled...
...Until one of the sides will get tired...
...HS: Don't you get a sense that the Palestinians are hurting their own cause because they won't express an interest in compromising, but only in driving Israel into the sea...
...The future is not running to Israel's side...
...It started just like that...
...They understand me...
...I can't control my son...
...But whatever I read in the paper, I have to go along with it...
...EK: Seventy-five percent of the Palestinians are agreed...
...HS: What would happen in the future if there are no negotiations...
...So let them finish them...
...It doesn't bother me at all...
...EK: That's a very hard question...
...At the time you don't have a state, you can do anything...
...But the Palestinians themselves, especially the people who live in the Old City, they don't believe so...
...EK: You need somebody who could understand your feelings more...
...I could negotiate with them, I could talk with them, but they must understand that there are two nations in this country who have to live as very good neighbors together...
...That's it...
...HS: Do you think it would be helpful if Arafat would announce that he recognizes Israel as a state...
...But the Palestinians have an idea that King Hussein, is not their real supporter, because of the 1970 war between the Jordanians and the Palestinians [Black September...
...It is called independence, freedom...
...EK: Sure...
...It's a state...
...HS:Why...
...EK: They have to follow what they are told in the paper, which is called Paper Number 10...
...EK: Well, that's a very hard question to tell you, Hershel, because I want to stay at the same mentality that I have during the past 20 years...
...Someone who lost his house, his land, his water, everything...
...Who has more power...
...HS: What did he do...
...When somebody loses his dream, that means he has no life...
...HS: The Israelis are very frightened of another Arab attack...
...If I could have my independent country, this doesn't mean I am so distant from the Israelis...
...EK: What do you mean...
...He's helping some people in the West Bank by giving them money...
...Then it was more...
...HS: What do you sell...
...HS: Thank you, Eid...
...HS: Are all of them Palestinian...
...We visit each other, and this gives me the impression that both of the nations, if they act well, and make an end to the fight, they will live together as good neighbors...
...You have a child born in freedom, you give him medicine, you give him a good house, you give him everything...
...Such people look at what their people are doing—a secret thing—and they go and tell the Israeli secret police about it...
...I don't know exactly whether to tell you "yes" or "no...
...You believe in Arafat...
...That's what Arafat says...
...I want to have a democratic country and I won't agree about non-democracy...
...HS: Wouldn't it help get the Israelis to the bargaining table if Arafat recognized Israel...
...I never believe in violence and I wish it's not going to continue with violence and I wish that both of the nations, as I said again and I repeat again, and again, that this kind of thing has been finished with for both sides, Palestinian and Israeli...
...HS: They do just what the PLO tells them...
...But you should ask why...
...They will still want an independent state, to be free, to have a country of their own...
...They know how to make peace...
...We want to be modern...
...Not everything...
...What's going to happen...
...They are not allowed to say that they are Palestinians and to fight for Palestinian rights...
...Their anger makes this uprising...
...HS: How many members of the family in Jerusalem...
...EK: I don't think so...
...Really, when I think about it, I am scared...
...EK: For sure, it's unfair...
...It's politics...
...There's a lot of talk about understanding each other, but still a feeling is a feeling...
...Israel is recognized already...
...His house has been destroyed...
...Eid Kwasmi: Four...
...EK: Why...
...Very little...
...If this is Peres, if this is Shamir, any man in Israel who gives me my rights as a Palestinian, I support him...
...I respect them and they respect me...
...So as to make the Israelis get a little bit tired of us...
...HS: What do the Palestinians want in this uprising...
...He was killed in Amman in 1984...
...How have you been oppressed...
...They have professors, they have a nation, they have educated men...
...HS: You have a shop...
...Would you agree as a Jew to autonomy...
...HS: You would rather be a citizen of Jordan than of Israel...
...Most of the people, they are afraid...
...If they do,] I'll be more happy and more satisfied...
...I want my nation also [to do this...
...They go to public schools...
...I wish I knew one of those who control it but I don't...
...HS: You are now head of the Kwasmi family in Jerusalem...
...HS: Do you think you're under Israeli occupation...
...HS: The Israelis say they won't talk to Arafat because all he wants to do is destroy them...
...Really, to be a moderate Palestinian, in a way, it's good these days because this war now has changed a lot of people's ideas, and their thoughts have been changed already to a [more] moderate way than before...
...My wish is that it will not be a hard time for the people, for both of us, both of the nations...
...Twenty years in Israel without learning anything...
...You are waiting for the Palestinians to recognize Israel...
...Because both are playing with something called politics...
...EK: Could be in different states or with Jordan...
...You understand me...
...EK: I have a shop in the Old City, in David Street, number 31...
...They have a state...
...In every uprising or in every revolution things bad could happen or things good...
...Everybody in the world knows that if somebody cooperates like this, it is bad for his own nation so he is punished...
...For me, I believe without violence...
...There are now about 5,000 men in Amman and Hebron, which is the oldest branch of the Kwasmi family...
...I don't want to answer that because I wish there were a way to understand each other more than with this kind of talk that you are asking me about...
...If we get our freedom, it will be a good thing...
...I want to ask you...
...HS: But they're afraid it will happen again...
...But he knows that there is no democracy in the West Bank...
...But all this democracy hasn't been given to the Arabs...
...I am not allowed to write anything...
...All the Palestinians are ready to live with the Jews as good neighbors if we have our independence...
...A lot of the newspapers have been closed...
...Your fellow Palestinians...
...I don't know exactly what you mean by a moderate Palestinian...
...But I think it's better if these two places, the West Bank and the East Bank [Jordan] come together...
...When you start things, you don't know what the end of it will be...
...Or should the Israelis, who have a state, recognize the Palestinians...
...They know how to think...
...But it's hard for me to keep waiting and looking at what's going on...
...EK: I didn't sell my car yet...
...As Palestinians, we have to work for our independence day...
Vol. 13 • May 1988 • No. 3
