Talks With John Lewis
Wilentz, Sean
The November elections produced, at best, mixed results. Apart from the marginal Democratic gains in the House and the marginal Republican gains in the Senate, the political landscape looked the...
...S. W.: Has the Gingrich revolution been stalled...
...I think we need to consider many options...
...S. W.: The common wisdom has been that the president succeeded not by getting in sync with the House Democrats or the Senate Democrats, but by moving to the center himself by co-opting a number of Republican issues...
...A lot of liberals refused to vote for Clinton this time, for precisely that reason...
...actual no...
...Yet, as recently as mid-1995, when the Gingrich revolution was advancing at full throttle and the Clinton presidency looked doomed, hardly anyone could have foreseen the eventual outcome...
...S.W.: The response to you...
...J.L.: Some of them are very conscious of it...
...d. free distribution by mail (samples, complimentary, and other free): average no...
...a. total no...
...As you well know, he's very smart—and he's a master at taking advantage of a given situation...
...And that might be a reason, again, why race isn't as effective anymore for the Republicans, beyond a core vote...
...To me, it was amazing...
...J.L.: It was very close to one...
...You don't have strong state Democratic parties to turn people out for a rally, or to turn people out to vote...
...Dole going from issue to issue, until he focused in the end on the whole money thing, campaign financing...
...158-080...
...And the relationship between the president and Al Gore is, you can tell, an authentic and solid one...
...I'm thinking particularly about the welfare bill...
...We've got to assist communities in providing quality education and public safety, and in doing something about drugs and crime...
...How do you think he will handle things over the next two years...
...quarterly...
...Publication name Dissent...
...copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: 4,558...
...I think that we came together, the Democratic members, and said that our interests were going to be in Medicare, Medicaid, education, and the environment...
...actual no copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: 14,000...
...It's all not going to happen in four years or eight years or twelve years...
...In 1991, he was named a Democratic Chief Deputy Whip, the third-highest post in the House Democratic leadership—making him the highest-ranking black representative in either party caucus, a position he retains...
...Signature and title of editor, publisher, business manager, or owner...
...He has represented Georgia's Fifth District (including the city of Atlanta) since 1987...
...Apart from the marginal Democratic gains in the House and the marginal Republican gains in the Senate, the political landscape looked the same the morning after Election Day as it had the day before...
...copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: 14,000...
...J.L.: No, we don't have anything right now...
...In the case of Gary Franks, I think he was just too conservative, even for his district...
...I like him...
...J.L.: I think they didn't see any great benefit in it...
...I think the thing that we did right, more than anything else, was that we stayed on message...
...copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: 2,240...
...And then, conversely, there was Gary Franks 's campaign in Connecticut, where a black Republican incumbent in a white-majority district was defeated, but not on racial issues...
...c. total paid and/or requested circulation (sum of 15b(1) and 15b(2): average no...
...In recent months, it looked as if you might actually succeed...
...Date: October 10, 1996...
...S. W. : You've watched the Speaker closely...
...The people who will be molding the agenda for our caucus are going to continue to stand on those principles...
...10 • DISSENT Comments and Opinions S.W.: What was the key to his turn-around...
...We tried to explain who we are and what we stand for...
...S. W.: One of the striking differences in the 1996 Democratic campaign was, as you just mentioned, the renewed prominence of the labor movement...
...In many states, the party structure is in shambles...
...copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: 152 g. total distribution (sum of 15c and 151): average no...
...Editor...
...I think that the American people want the federal government to be there when they need it...
...3. Filing date: October 1996...
...I'm realistic enough 1996 STATEMENT OF OWNERSHIP AND CIRCULATION (Required by 39 U S C 3685) I. Publication title: Dissent...
...But for the most part, they don't want to revisit it...
...J.L.: I think that probably over the first two or three months he will do his best to be less combative...
...If necessary, appoint a bipartisan commission to come up with some basic recommendations, and we'll put it in legislative form and pass it...
...I think that hurt us...
...What are we to make of these confusing trends...
...J.L.: Well, I would like to see our party unified, with Al Gore and the president coming out of the end of this administration with a good and solid record, with no bruising primary contest— that we have a unified effort in 2000, with Al Gore as the nominee...
...J.L.: I think it has...
...S. W.: Do you think there's much of a future to health-care reform...
...With the makeup of the Ways and Means Committee, and Energy and Commerce, I don't think we'll do much along these lines...
...S. W.: Are there any specific proposals on job training...
...But there is a need to take a second look at the welfare bill that passed, and to put emphasis on job training and job placement...
...J.L.: I think that's also true...
...What will be the major proposals to come from the White House and the congressional Democrats over the coming months...
...And I think the president is going to do whatever he can to see that Al Gore succeeds him...
...S.W.: What is the future of the welfare issue...
...The Republicans complained a great deal about the unions and the "big labor bosses...
...Though I think that there are many of us who still want Congress to do something on health care...
...Simone Plastrik, Business Manager...
...S. W.: Why...
...copies each issue during preceding 12 months' 4,569...
...And what went right...
...We've got to have strong, grassroots, organized state and county and district structures...
...copies each issue during preceding 12 months: 11,466...
...copies each issue during preceding 12 months- 97.80%, actual no...
...And we hope that the president won't be bashful, and we won't be bashful, about doing something to fix the welfare bill...
...It's not just for convenience...
...5. No of issues published annually: four...
...But just looking at it, being objective, Al Gore will be the front-runner...
...We need a winning streak...
...actual no...
...I am convinced that had the election been held, maybe, two weeks earlier, we would have won back the House...
...We can't do that any more...
...J.L.: To be very candid, I don't know...
...But maybe it sends a message, that in places like south Georgia, where Sanford was elected, which is primarily rural, or Cynthia in suburban Atlanta—that people are prepared to look beyond race...
...S.W.: Do you think the Republicans realize that too...
...We kept saying over and over again that this effort was all about putting families first, which included protecting Medicare, Medicaid, education, and the environment...
...Extent and nature of circulation...
...Is the Democratic party united in looking to Gore, or do you see other people, like Richard Gephardt, getting support...
...actual no...
...S.W: Still, on many of these issues and others, over at least the last six months, the White House's approach has been very small-bore, talking about things that won't cost a great deal, about voluntary solutions to problems, under the assumption that, as the president said, "the era of big government is over" Is the era of big government over...
...Not at all...
...Several of the freshman members who were reelected won with very small margins...
...Lewis ran unopposed in 1996, both in the Georgia Democratic primary and in the general election, and he spent much of his time during the fall campaign traveling around the country WINTER • 1997 • 9 Comments and Opinions to stump for other Democrats...
...8 Complete mailing address of headquarters or general business office of publisher: same as above...
...S. W.: Looking to the more distant future: the campaign of 2000 has now begun, and Al Gore has made no secret about his desire to succeed Clinton...
...actual no copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: none f. total free distribution (sum of I5d and 15e): average no...
...S.W.: Maybe the South has changed quicker than the North . . J.L.: Well, I went down with John Spratt and campaigned with him in a little community, and we had something I'd never heard of before, called a chicken bog—some type of South Carolina dish where they cook chicken and rice together...
...S. W.: To address racial politics from a different angle: thinking about Cynthia McKinney and Sanford Bishop's successful congressional campaigns in Georgia, or Julia Carson's successful campaign in Indiana, each was a case in which a black Democratic candidate needed, and managed to get, a substantial white vote...
...We'll have a honeymoon for a while, but it won't last long...
...copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: 7,050...
...The Democratic caucus, in spite of everything that's happened, is progressive...
...It was held in the huge backyard of a state senator who was supporting John Spratt...
...copies each issue during preceding 12 months: 1,222, actual no...
...I think the president and the Democrats—hopefully, the Republicans will buy into it—will come together and say, "Let's do it...
...Then, in Augusta, campaigning with David Bell, who almost won—they had a chili cookout in a little park, and most of the audience was white, but Bell had me as his special person to draw people there...
...J.L.: Just hang in there...
...J.L.: I think that more than anything else, he bought into the message of the Democratic members of the House and Senate...
...copies each issue during preceding 12 months: 6,644...
...That we can get elected, but at the cost of sacrificing so much that the prize isn't worth the effort...
...actual no...
...A lot of single-payer people are still out there who are concerned about this rush to managed care as the panacea to our problems...
...With the shift of the population toward the Sunbelt, it's good to have a moderate person emerging who can bring these different factions together, and hold them together, the way the president has been able to do...
...S. W.: One thing that was notable about the Republicans in 1996, after the primaries, was that the national campaign had much less of the kind of divisive social and racial rhetoric that we have heard in the past...
...copies each issue during preceding 12 months: none...
...The Democratic candidate came along with a message that was much more appealing to the average voter in that district...
...But I think we have to move in that direction...
...On the one hand, they were trying early on, through Jack Kemp, to reach out to minority voters and bring people in...
...We've got to keep something in place...
...copies each issue during preceding 12 months: none...
...Some of the Republicans may resist that, because the corporate business interests won't be happy...
...copies each Issue during preceding 12 months: 11,213...
...WINTER • 1997 • 13 Comments and Opinions to know that the party's got to be broad enough, that we're all not going to get everything we would like in a particular candidate...
...b. paid and/or requested circulation (1) sales through dealers and carriers, street vendors, and counter sales (not mailed...
...And the Republicans will have a much smaller margin to work with in the House...
...2. Publication No...
...Yet voter participation was still down, especially among low-income voters...
...That played well...
...Lewis first won national attention for his activities in the civil rights movement, as a leader of the Nashville civil rights sit-in demonstrations in 1960, as one of the Freedom Riders in 1961, and as national chair of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee from 1963 until 1966...
...You have to build...
...The bottom line is trying to win...
...But you have to take the long, hard view...
...In some of the meetings, not only in Georgia but also in South Carolina, in small towns, for rural candidates, white candidates, and the audiences were predominantly white—the response was just unbelievable, unreal...
...And I think that he'll have people like Tom DeLay and Dick Armey looking over his shoulder...
...J.L.: Well, the day of big government might be over, as we knew it...
...Percent paid and/or requested circulation (15c/I5g x 100): average no...
...Too many people still don't have health care—it is simply unaffordable or unavailable...
...They appealed to the voters not along the lines of race, but on protecting working families, protecting jobs, protecting Medicare and Medicaid, protecting education and the environment...
...Mitchell Cohen, Foundation for the Study of Independent Social Ideas, 521 Fifth Avenue, Suite 1700, New York, NY 10017...
...copies each issue during preceding 12 months...
...J.L.: We have to fix Medicare...
...2) return from news agents: average no...
...4 Issue frequency...
...S. W. But where does that leave those who stand up for ideas that are out of favor these days...
...Issue date for circulation data below...
...While the American people seemed to want health care for all, they found the plan confusing and overwhelming...
...copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: 11,760...
...In some instances, very good candidates were out there almost alone, with some help from the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee...
...There was a big discussion of affirmative action in California, but nationally, the Dole campaign and, from what I could see, the national party, were not doing that...
...And it's better to try and build with someone who will be responsive...
...So I think race is becoming less and less of a factor...
...Michael Walzer, Foundation for the Study of Independent Social Ideas, 521 Fifth Avenue, Suite 1700, New York, NY 10017 Managing editor: Maxine Phillips, 521 Fifth Avenue, Suite 1700, New York, NY 10017...
...I also think that the president, because ofAl Gore's support, will do something about cleaning up these toxic sites and getting out in front on some of the environmental issues...
...J.L.: I just don't know...
...Have we finally reached the point where black candidates can assemble sufficient white support if they simply run strong campaigns...
...S.W.: I don't know w hat it means finally to turn the corner, or whether we ever will turn the corner, but it just seems different—the country seems more mature on racial issues, at least at this level...
...average no...
...This man has been so loyal...
...J.L.: It concerns me that every four years—or every two years, in the case of congressional elections—we have to reinvent the wheel...
...I don't think we're going to see anything like that coming...
...The Republicans have a real problem with the gender gap, and to start fanning the flames of race would have been quite harmful...
...Many of our best candidates were drowned in dollars...
...We just can't wait every two years or every four years to try and put something together...
...253, actual no...
...But where there are differences, we will make them known...
...But I know that if we don't do something early next year, the clock is going to start ticking...
...copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: none...
...But I would hope we could make some changes, even small ones...
...Being in the minority, unless we can coalesce with some of the moderate, more progressive Republicans, it's going to be very difficult for us to move it or shape it...
...But I don't think that the role of the federal government is over...
...10 Owner: Foundation for the Study of Independent Social Ideas, 521 Fifth Avenue, Suite 1700, New York, NY 10017 11 Known bondholders, mortgagees, and other security holders owning or holding I percent or more of total amount of bonds, mortgages, or other securities: None...
...2) paid or requested mail subscriptions (include advertisers' proof copies/exchange copies: average no...
...e. free distribution outside the mail (carriers or other means): average no...
...You're building for the future...
...That it's time to stop voting for the lesser of two evils—moderate Republicans in Democratic clothing...
...J.L.: I think that what hurt us more than anything was that, during the last two weeks of the campaign, we were outspent...
...average no...
...Foundation for the Study of Independent Social Ideas, 521 Fifth Avenue, Suite 1700, New York, NY 10017...
...Also, the president had a simple theme—building a bridge to the twenty-first century—and I think it resonated with people...
...S. 1E: Switching to the White House—Clinton didn't exactly win a mandate, but he certainly...
...At the same time, we were very successful at painting many of the conservative freshman members as clones of Speaker Gingrich...
...J.L.: I think we have to continue...
...actual no...
...He spoke with me by telephone from his Washington home on November 8. The following is an edited transcript of our conversation...
...And I think that he'd be good on all the big issues...
...And we don't want to have hundreds of thousands of people falling back into poverty...
...They enjoy doing what they're doing...
...Immediately after the 1994 elections, you and your Democratic colleagues began working extremely hard to regain the majority in the House...
...But the idea of big federal bureaucracies . . . J.L.: Yeah, like the health proposal...
...He's decent...
...J.L.: Uh-huh...
...J.L.: I think there are other people who will be looking down that road as we move along...
...A few days before the election, campaign financing and foreign contributions started sticking as an issue...
...S.W...
...He saw a train coming, and he got on board...
...At the same time, I think that divisive rhetoric would have turned off many moderate white women voters...
...It was like someone who was going fishing—you go to a hole and you fail to get a bite, you go to another hole and you fail to get a bite, and you just keep fishing, trying to find something that will bite...
...I still think that we have not yet turned the corner to where there is no need for some courtordered districts...
...He ran well...
...copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: 11,608...
...h. copies not distributed (1) office use, leftovers, spoiled: average no...
...S. W.: Okay, but how do you respond to those who say that moderation might win elections, but at too great a cost...
...actual no...
...So it's going to be very hard for him...
...The majority-black districts gave people like Bishop and McKinney a chance to establish a record, and then the voters could judge them on their records...
...copies each issue during preceding 12 months: 12,688...
...J.L.: I can tell just by going campaigning for Democratic candidates down in places like Augusta and Macon...
...9 Full names and complete mailing addresses of publisher, editor, and managing editor Publisher...
...And in 12 • DISSENT Comments and Opinions order for that to happen, you have to be committed to make certain resources available, whether it's funds for airline safety, or cleaning up the toxic dump sites around the country, highways or mass transit, or whatever...
...They wanted to keep Colin Powell happy and try to get him to get out and campaign...
...6 Annual subscription price...
...I just think that we have to fight today and do what we can now, and be prepared for another day...
...We're going to work and cooperate with the president...
...But they had the Chamber of Commerce, the National Federation of Independent Businesses, the Christian Coalition, and the National Rifle Association...
...I can readily support him...
...S. W.: Would a challenge to Gore simply be destructive...
...It was just almost impossible...
...When we can vote with him, we'll vote with him...
...How do you see that shaping up at the moment...
...Something seems to be missing in terms of mobilizing Democratic constituencies...
...S. W...
...But I think that his very nature, his very being, will push him to be his old self...
...J.L.: We've taken things for granted for so long...
...copies each issue during preceding 12 months: 12,688...
...actual no...
...Do these examples say anything about the strategy of relying on the courts and redistricting in order to insure black representation...
...copies of single issue published nearest to filing date...
...But we must fix Medicare in a way that saves it for future generations...
...copies each issue during preceding 12 months: 253...
...Labor was out there almost alone...
...S.W...
...What do you say to them...
...The purpose, function, and nonprofit status of this organization and the exempt status for federal tax purposes has not changed during the preceding twelve months...
...That moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue, so to speak...
...Newt and his cadres now must realize that they went too far, that they are looked upon by the American people as too extreme, that they have to move from the right to the center...
...copies (net press run...
...What went wrong...
...These two guys like each other...
...We're going to have to sit down with the D.C.C.C., with the Democratic National Committee, maybe with some people at the White House, and start assessing what went wrong and figure out how to be more effective...
...They had the help and support of the environmental groups, but for the most part, in many districts, it was just organized labor...
...In the last Congress, he was one of Speaker Newt Gingrich's most outspoken and implacable critics...
...To get a sympathetic Washington insider's perspective, I spoke with Representative John Lewis of Georgia...
...Summer 1996...
...i. total (sum of 15g, 156(1), and 15h(2): average no...
...22 individual 7 Complete mailing address of known office of publication...
...S. W...
...Instead, you saw Mr...
...copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: 98.71% 16 This Statement of Ownership will be printed in the Winter 1997 issue of this publication, 17...
...And they had a biracial audience—about a hundredand-twenty-five people came out and sat there in this little rural town in low-country South Carolina...
...WINTER • 1997 • 11 Comments and Opinions J.L.: I think McKinney, Bishop, and Carson are examples of how black candidates can succeed in traditionally Democratic districts when they are out-front and aggressive about issues that transcend race...
...And I think that the Republicans sense that...
...If they are going to be successful in doing anything, they must reach out and try to work with many of the Democratic members...
Vol. 44 • January 1997 • No. 1
