Letters
Editors: Michael Katz published a review of my book The New Politics of Poverty in your Fall 1992 issue. The review is very hostile, yet I felt honored by it. Katz is an important historian of...
...He makes a number of detailed criticisms of my argument and evidence...
...Conservatives, not liberals, are the optimists about what poor individuals could achieve...
...But it is not an evil view...
...Maybe, Meir had some sense that Palestinian identity was (by 1969) becoming more salient...
...Rather, dysfunctional poverty is driving social policy toward a paternalistic regime for the poor...
...It's conventional conservatives who talk as Katz alleges, because they think poor adults are capable enough to be held morally responsible for their behavior...
...She probably thought that being Arab or Moslem was "a more basic identification" —which was, of course, the dominant view among Arab intellectuals and politicians at that time...
...I am happy to be able to support you...
...There was no "Palestinian people . . . considering itself as a Palestinian people" in the 1920s, 1930s, or 1940s (my italics...
...q Praise Editors: Yours is a voice of hope, sanity and democratic ideals...
...It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them...
...Actually, I say that the evidence for them is too weak to explain the extent of nonwork among the poor...
...128 • DISSENT...
...By this, I think he means not just that I was wrong about Meir's words, but also that I should have known better...
...Asked whether the emergence of Palestinian fighting forces represented an important development, she replies: "Important, no...
...Katz says that I totally dismiss barriers to opportunity for the poor...
...After all, there are millions and millions of refugees in the world and I have not yet heard anybody that said the three million Sudeten Germans should go back to Czechoslovakia— nobody...
...And yes, Jim Rule should know better than to make accusations of that sort...
...With one partial exception, they are all false or exaggerated...
...Katz claims that I call nonwork among the poor "voluntary" and say that they don't want to work...
...Actually, I say that long-term poverty stems mostly from a depressed subculture involving all races—some whites and Asians, and many Hispanics and American Indians, as well as blacks...
...The source for my quotation was Thomas L. Friedman's From Beirut to Jerusalem...
...I do not know why the Arab refugees are a particular problem in the world...
...she replies: "No, no responsibility whatsoever...
...Instead, I link it to ethnicity...
...People who do not work cannot qualify for redistribution, but neither could they survive in a laissez-faire society...
...My own view is moderate: the poor need help, but government must hold them responsible for functioning in minimal ways, such as work...
...I wrote that when the dominant group seeks to portray the identity of the state as isomorphic with its own, the very existence of "the wrong kind of people" is apt to become a scandal and a threat...
...the following are the most important points: Katz says that I associate poverty with blacks...
...This is a tragic development for left and right alike...
...Friedman gives the source of Meir's words only as a 1969 interview in London's Sunday Times...
...Jim means to deny that such a thing can rightly be said...
...Letters must be kept to about 500 words, typed, double-spaced, and carry, the full address and name of the sender...
...I believe nonworking poverty makes inconceivable the left's traditional pursuit of economic equality...
...So if you want to write about something that you like, or dislike, in or about Dissent, please do it quickly...
...q To Letter Writers • We welcome succinct letters from our readers...
...JAMES B. RULE Princeton, N.J...
...As far as Meir was concerned, the Palestinians clearly had, indeed, no legitimate existence within the Jewish state...
...Today's poor need, and respond to, such expectations...
...q Palestinians Editors: In rejoining to my "Nationalism, Tribalism and the State," Michael Walzer takes exception to my rendition of a statement by Golda Meir...
...While blacks are a majority of the long-term poor, I reject the notion that poverty is inherently tied to race...
...Katz is an important historian of welfare who has taught me a lot about the politics of poverty...
...An incompetent poor puts in question the traditional goals of both left and right...
...We reserve the right to edit letters down to fit our space and to choose which shall be printed...
...LAWRENCE M. MEAD New York, N.Y...
...More subtly, I say that judgments of barriers have become relative to judgments about the competence of the poor...
...That is not my own view, so I won't accept Jim's invitation to uphold it...
...Space limitations preclude a detailed response...
...Simply on intellectual grounds, this is the best review I've received...
...Liberals doubt competence, so they say nonwork is imposed on the poor by an unjust society...
...From these sentiments, it is a short, cynical step to denying even the legitimate existence of the wrong kinds of people within the state—and we have statements like Golda Meir's declaration in 1969 on the Palestinians: "They do not exist...
...Unlike some other reviewers, he sees that my book is an attack on the progressive tradition in politics, not just a brief for "workfare...
...Walzer's comment was, [Rule's] quote from Golda Meir is inaccurate—a sad and entirely avoidable mistake: her argument had to do with the identity, not the existence, of the Palestinians...
...Actually, I say that whether nonwork is voluntary has become the great issue in politics...
...Letters will not be returned to senders unless they are accompanied by stamped, self-addressed envelopes...
...But she never doubted the "legitimate existence" of these people, whatever their identity...
...To me, they epitomize the characteristic evils that ensue from efforts of "tribes" at domination over those unfortunate enough to be the wrong kind of people for inclusion in the tribal state...
...Michael Walzer Replies: In his first response to my "Tribalism" essay, Jim Rule questioned the reality or, at least, the priority of national identity...
...They did not exist...
...No one should imagine that my argument justifies conventional, anti-government conservatism...
...But because we have a long "lead time" for each issue, you have to send us your letter within three weeks after getting an issue of Dissent in order to get it into the next issue...
...Anyway, she goes on past the point where Jim says, "Gotcha...
...After some difficulty, I obtained a copy of the full interview, which ran on June 15 of that year...
...When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian State...
...It was either southern Syria before the first world war, and then it was a Palestine including Jordan...
...She favors the Jordanians, argues against Palestinian statehood, insists that the Palestinians will have to be citizens of Jordan or of Israel (she had already, before the famous line, indicated her own readiness for territorial compromise...
...Read the whole interview and it is clear that Golda Meir is defending the safety of her own people, not seeking domination over any other...
...A new factor, yes...
...Katz sees the threat that poses to his own, radical analysis of the social problem...
...All that Golda Meir does in the interview from which he quotes is to make a similar denial with reference to the history of the Palestinians...
...Jim stops with the famous line "They did not exist," which is always quoted, as he quoted it the first time around, as "They do not exist...
...I leave it to others to uphold these words, if they will...
...The question is rhetorical...
...Who can say," he asked, "that being Irish is, or should be, inherently a more basic identification than being gay, or Protestant, or socialist, or disabled...
...At one stage, the interviewer asks Meir, then prime minister, whether Israel admits "a measure of responsibility" for the "plight of the Palestinians...
...We are unable to acknowledge letters...
...Those who see barriers are those who don't believe poor adults can cope on their own, while those who don't see barriers think that they can...
...There was no such WINTER • 1993 • 127 thing as Palestinians...
...GERALD MON PERE Fresno, Calif...
...to ask whether Israel should be negotiating with Palestinians or Jordanians...
...The rest of the interview makes this clear...
...He is not, however, fair...
Vol. 40 • January 1993 • No. 1
