South Africa: "We Are Bound to Struggle" -an interview with Chief Luthuli
An Interview with Chief Luthuli, Head of the National Congress In 1954 George Houser, then visiting South Africa, met Chief Albert J. Luthuli, present head of the African National Congress...
...There are those who take a real interest in the welfare of the people...
...9. About how large is this area...
...The present rulers are determined men, apparently prepared to take a stand against anyone who doesn't toe their line...
...The Government said that because of my activities in the African National Congress, especially in the non-violent passive defiance campaign that Congress was launching at the time, they would not have the chief participating...
...what does this mean and why did it happen...
...Not merely arouse our people, but educate our people to see that the right goal of man is freedom . I think there lies our hope...
...There is a difference of opinion on this, but I think this is the present mood within the circle of leaders...
...We are publishing here excerpts of an interview held with Chief Luthuli...
...What success we will have in that way will, of course, depend on the extent to which we are able to educate our people...
...A. I have become a man who has embraced non-violence...
...9. 1 understand there was another aftermath of this...
...There is no question about it...
...Q. When were you elected chief...
...Our view is that in every sphere the European must retain the right to rule the country and to keep it a white man's country...
...The Baas Our policy is that the Europeans must stand their ground and must remain Baas [master] in South Africa...
...I was banned in 1953, but that expired in June...
...A. At the present time, those who are banned are cooperating...
...They were established by a missionary and are more or less a Christian community...
...maybe about thirty miles across...
...After that time limit had expired, they asked what my decision was...
...Then he gave me time to go and think whether or not I would be able to give up...
...Incidentally, those are Acts passed under Smuts: not acts of the Nationalist Party...
...9. What is the aim of the Government at present...
...What does banning mean...
...Incidentally, this is my second ban...
...A. I think that, on the whole, the trend indicates deterioration, unfortunately...
...A. Well, in Stanger here we are not quite in the center, but I should think it would be about 15 miles to Tugela and 15 miles to Tonga...
...Of course, I realize there is a fund of goodwill being shown by some Europeans, for instance...
...Do they think they can maintain a democratic system even within the European community...
...They put it on again in July, for two years now instead of one year...
...If we reject the Herrenvolk idea and the principle that the white man cannot remain Baas, if the franchise is to be extended to the non-Europeans, and if the non-Europeans are developed on the same basis as the Europeans, how can the Europeans remain Baas...
...9. What may possibly change this trend...
...I said to them: so far as I am concerned, I don't see any conflict between being Chief and being head of Congress...
...The emphasis may be more now than it was then...
...One is the matter of discipline itself...
...What are they are trying to do...
...A. In 1936...
...You have also been banned, have you not...
...I was still free to go about in some areas and I suppose it was because I did go to these areas they have now limited me strictly to my own area...
...I am restricted to this area...
...As a matter of discipline, we wouldn't, for instance, now welcome any leader who, just on his own, would say: "Well, all right, I am defying, you know...
...This shows that the pattern has been the same throughout...
...For instance, now, in my present ban, I am only allowed within my own magisterial area, Lower Tugela...
...They requested the government that they be given the right to elect their chief so that they might be able to elect people who are more or less in sympathy with Christian principles...
...A. Until I was deposed I was, of course, chief of what is known as the Amakola tribe, in the Umvoti Mission Reserve, a community founded by the American-born missionary, Reverend Grout...
...In fairness to the Government, I should say that I was called up to headquarters at Pretoria where I was interviewed by the Secretary for Native Affairs...
...A. As for the Europeans, my impression is this: the Afrikaner, having gained ascendency and power, is not going to give much of a hearing to the other white groups if they don't toe the line...
...He tried his best to reason with me and to find out why I was joining this movement...
...Of course, that does raise the question which has been asked by some people: why aren't the leaders defying the ban...
...But in the first ban I was restricted to certain towns...
...From a speech of J. G. Strijdom, Prime Minister of South Africa, quoted in the London Observer, December, 1952...
...An Interview with Chief Luthuli, Head of the National Congress In 1954 George Houser, then visiting South Africa, met Chief Albert J. Luthuli, present head of the African National Congress and, as such, an authoritative spokesman for large numbers of his countrymen...
...I could not move outside this area unless, of course, I was defiant...
...A. Well, I was deposed round about 1952...
...That may come later, 9. Do you think relations between the Europeans and the nonEuropeans are deteriorating at the present time...
...To that extent, I think democracy might be on the way out in South Africa...
...It may not be the best thing to have us locked behind bars and leave our people...
...What do you think the place of non-violence in the picture will be...
...According to this law, the area in which a leader may or may not be is prescribed...
...According to the Suppression of Communism Act, or the Criminal Laws Amendment Act, the Government has power to do that...
...Q. You mentioned you had been deposed...
...9. How many people live in the community...
...They could take me to the wilds of Zulu, for example, just leave me there and say: now you can't go beyond this particular areal Q. Do you think a time might come in the struggle here when those who have been banned under either of these acts might refuse to cooperate with it...
...There are several considerations...
...But this is mere "ambulance" work...
...to do amongst our people...
...A. Since the African Congress, in alliance with the South African Congress (of Indians) and, lately, with the Colored organization and now also with the Congress of Democrats, has been pushing very hard along the political front, we find that the Government, using the laws of the land, employs a harsh hand by stopping people—certain leaders—from freely moving about...
...These people, for over one hundred years, I think, have elected their own chief...
...As Chief I am supposed to be the leader of my people, to lead them to liberty...
...9. Chief Luthuli, can you tell me which group you are chief of...
...I am banned under the Criminal Laws Amendment Act...
...What is the trend...
...According to the Act, they can still remove me from this area and put me practically anywhere in South Africa...
...I cannot see that the white man in this country will ever freely grant us franchise rights...
...I hope a time will come when those of us who are banned will refuse to cooperate...
...As leader of the Congress I have got to lead my people to emancipation and to freedom...
...Certainly insofar as non-whites are concerned I do not see any other way we may employ in order to achieve our objective of freedom...
...There is a feeling in the leadership that we are very much limited in numbers, and probably still have a lot of organizational groundwork...
...A. We are 5,000 men, women and children, according to the last census...
Vol. 3 • July 1956 • No. 3
