FROM A MACNEIL-LEHRER INTERVIEW WITH DOUGLAS FRASER
Below are some excerpts from an interview conducted by ROBERT MacNEIL (from New York) and JIM LEHRER (from Washington), on Public Television's MacNeil-Lehrer Report, with DOUGLAS FRASER, who...
...ROBERT MacNEIL: Won't fresh wage demands by auto workers further weaken the price competitiveness of U.S...
...And one of the reasons we do it is because...
...they've finally recognized what I've known for over 40 years, that the men and women in the auto plant are intelligent persons with tremendous ingenuity, and they are great innovators, and the companies are beginning now to utilize that intelligence...
...I don't care what Administration would be in power, and those very same people, members of our union who voted for Ronald Reagan in significant numbers in 1980, are now saying to us, We made a terrible mistake...
...the industrial sector shrinks, the service sector grows, and the service sector traditionally, historically, is a little more difficult to organize...
...Copyright © 1983 by the Educational Broadcasting Corporation and GWETA, and printed here with permission.—Ens...
...FRASER: Well, I think the basic answer is a philosophical one, and that is if you're a worker, I don't care where you work, but the only way you can have a voice in your own future and your own destiny is through representation of your own choosing...
...292 FRASER: No, no...
...We've never resisted automation and new technology because we realize that if you want a larger slice of the economic pie, the easiest way to do it is bake a larger pie...
...In addition to that, if you have sufficient expansion of the auto industry, if the auto industry begins to grow once more, then you'll be producing more and more vehicles but with the same number of workers, or slightly more workers...
...You know, the frustration and the agony and despair that a family feels or men or women feel who can't provide for their families...
...Of course, 25 percent of our population was unemployed, and anyone can wring inflation out of the economy...
...Fraser, what lights the fire in the belly of a union activist today compared with what got you started 47 years ago...
...MacNEIL: Well, productivity of course raises questions like robots and computers and things, which are replacing a lot of workers...
...I think the economic policies of this Administration are an absolute disaster...
...Exactly what does that mean, and how far do you think it should go...
...DOUGLAS FRASER: Well, I suppose if you're just looking at wage increases in the abstract you could make that argument...
...0 LEHRER: Is the country well governed now...
...Won't fresh militancy by the auto workers hasten their arrival...
...But absent that, in a mass industry, and really the only way you can have democracy in a workplace is by representation of your own choosing by a union...
...FRASER: Resentment, resentment from the fact that they're ready and willing and able and anxious to work and can't find a job to provide for their families...
...But what we have to do in the future is provide [conditions so] that the introduction of automation is not done in an uncivilized manner where massive numbers of workers are thrown out in the street...
...And that's what's happened to us in the course of the last 30 years...
...But I think the principal one, and this is now taking place in the workplace at Ford and General Motors, in a considerable number of plants, and that is that the workers' intelligence is finally recognized by the company...
...So my guess would be that the increased productivity would offset any new wage increases...
...Is going to a board meeting all that's involved...
...You're just kidding yourself if you don't accept that fact because, as...
...cars, given foreign wage rates...
...FRASER: Well, it takes a variety of forms...
...LEHRER: What is the major attraction to a modern worker in these new industries to join a union...
...Now, the only exception to that rule is if you have a certain talent and a certain professionalism that is in demand, then you can bargain as an individual...
...The trick is to try to get the balance that we once had in this country...
...JIM LEHRER: Mr...
...And...
...MacNEIL: What do you see as the future of unionism as the economy changes, as we're told it's going to change radically...
...And I don't—I'm not criticizing...
...I think the same old struggles are there in one form or the other...
...LEHRER: IS it resentment toward the company or resentment toward the union or resentment toward the system...
...you can have people laid off by attrition—[which does] reduce the work force...
...When I was a kid, a teenager, the cost of living was going down...
...And I think that in itself democratizes the workplace, when a worker has really a meaningful voice in organizing the fashion in which his work is performed...
...Below are some excerpts from an interview conducted by ROBERT MacNEIL (from New York) and JIM LEHRER (from Washington), on Public Television's MacNeil-Lehrer Report, with DOUGLAS FRASER, who spoke from Dallas on May 20, 1983...
...FRASER: Oh, I don't believe so...
...It has to be done in a more humane way...
...I should say, by attrition rather than just putting people out on the street...
...MacNEIL: You've also talked a lot about the further democratization of American industry, getting more worker representation...
...FRASER: Well, you see, you can't—in our union, historically, this is a matter of philosophy...
...FRASER: Well, I think you're going to have greater difficulty organizing...
...And I can see a significant change of attitude in the last two years, but particularly on the part of people who've been laid off over an extended period, who remind me of the Depression of the '30s...
...You know, they brag about the fact that the inflation rate last year was only 3.9, and I keep saying, as I told the delegates to our convention, any fool can reduce inflation to nothing...
...LEHRER: In what way...
...But our productivity in the automobile industry is advancing at a very rapid rate, and as we increase the volume and get the economics of scale, there's going to be a great escalation of productivity...
...FRASER: Well, I think in large measure the resentment is coming against the Administration...
...And so unions have their work cut out for them, and are just going to have to intensify their organizational efforts using the newest techniques available and put a greater amount of resources into their organizational efforts...
...It's really history revisited...
...I think what lights the fire in the worker's belly is, for example, going through this excruciating period of unemployment...
...Otherwise, you just must accept whatever the boss has to give you...
...293...
Vol. 30 • July 1983 • No. 3
