Vietnam and the Left:
Thomas, Norman
Norman Thomas I think all opponents of our war in Vietnam, and certainly the Left, should take what seems to me the most promising and reasonable line: Put every conceivable and...
...To use suicide by hunger to defeat the passage of a law is a form of undemocratic coercion...
...It is an example that too many people might follow for the wrong reasons...
...and indignation...
...If one has any property the government can collect its tax anyway...
...It meets as far as is right our commitments to our present Vietnamese allies...
...It is conceivable that a government threatens escalation in order to reach its policy aim...
...It is not a virtue per se...
...In our mixed-up world, I should not denounce any sincere effort for peace, but I think that at this time protests involving nonviolent, dramatic civil disobedience may do our cause more harm than good with the public as well as the President...
...But conscientious objection to all war or to a particular war in our imperfect democracy is so grave and personal a matter that I have never urged it on our young men, especially since I am not myself subject to the draft...
...There was one of the great Gandhi's hunger strikes葉hat over the representation of outcastes葉hat didn't seem to me to meet these tests even in the India of his day...
...I am referring now to clear-cut and acknowledged civil disobedience, not the breaking of some local law or police ordinance in itself believed to be unconstitutional...
...He should make it clear that we will withdraw all our military on the completion of negotiations reasonably satisfactory to the Vietnamese people and with strong guarantees against massacres of revenge...
...The riots have been riots, not examples of civil disobedience, violent or non-violent, except as clearly provoked by the aggression of police, Klansmen and the like...
...This is the best and most likely line for withdrawal...
...I myself, if I know myself, would refuse to fight in Vietnam whatever it might cost me...
...Very few civil rights demonstrations have involved genuine civil disobedience...
...Time, events, the clear failure of the plan I advocate might change my mind...
...In general, civil disobedience in a democracy, especially at a time when there is so much lawlessness, is to be justified only in situations justifying revolutionary action, in which case it may be not only ethically but practically preferable to violence...
...I am interested in peace, not in the victory of Vietcong, as are some of the "New Left...
...If one has any property the government can collect its tax anyway...
...A wholesale strike against an identifiable and particularly iniquitous tax might be another matter...
...In general there should be a return to the Geneva line of 1954 which called for neutralization, plus offers of American economic aid...
...I am interested in peace, not in the victory of Vietcong, as are some of the "New Left...
...He should make it clear that we will withdraw all our military on the completion of negotiations reasonably satisfactory to the Vietnamese people and with strong guarantees against massacres of revenge...
...In the unlikely event that the Vietnamese Communists, North and South, should refuse this, I should still insist on withdrawal under some formula which I think the situation would enable us to find, but I shouldn't expect the President to say this now...
...government could easily increase the pressure beyond the point where its enemies must give up...
...It meets as far as is right our commitments to our present Vietnamese allies...
...I know that we who have had so disastrous and stupid a Chinese policy can conquer neither China nor Communism in Southeast China by force of arms...
...I have said that I would be a conscientious objector to fighting in Vietnam but I don't think I have an equal right of control over my own property in our modern democratic state...
...Democracy's hope is in the realm of ideas and performance...
...In our mixed-up world, I should not denounce any sincere effort for peace, but I think that at this time protests involving nonviolent, dramatic civil disobedience may do our cause more harm than good with the public as well as the President...
...The conduct of this war is inseparable from its causes and consequences...
...Something very similar is happening to the United States in the Vietnam war...
...It would give the U.S...
...a position in the eyes of world opinion and probably that of the great majority of Vietnamese, sick of war and atrocities on both sides, which the Communists could not ignore...
...It is based on our concern for peace in itself and as a condition of growth of any sort of real freedom...
...Norman Thomas I think all opponents of our war in Vietnam, and certainly the Left, should take what seems to me the most promising and reasonable line: Put every conceivable and possible effective pressure on the President to get him to implement his repeated desire for unconditional negotiations by dramatically calling for a cease-fire and an end to further outside aid, supervised by neutral nations, as a prelude to immediate negotiations in which the National Liberation Front should be recognized as a principal negotiator, not a tail to North Vietnam's kite...
...It is not a virtue per se...
...But the U.S...
...In the unlikely event that the Vietnamese Communists, North and South, should refuse this, I should still insist on withdrawal under some formula which I think the situation would enable us to find, but I shouldn't expect the President to say this now...
...Time, events, the clear failure of the plan I advocate might change my mind...
...This is the best and most likely line for withdrawal...
...It is an example that too many people might follow for the wrong reasons...
...But conscientious objection to all war or to a particular war in our imperfect democracy is so grave and personal a matter that I have never urged it on our young men, especially since I am not myself subject to the draft...
...it has become so cruel and now shows so many symptoms of a colonial war, that the nature of the war itself determines my conclusions as to its likely outcome and the necessary adjustments on the part of the United States...
...Is it likely to serve the end...
...One shouldn't pick and choose the taxes he will pay...
...It would give the U.S...
...Very few civil rights demonstrations have involved genuine civil disobedience...
...I would support a policy designed to save South Vietnam...
...I think each case of civil disobedience in the service of a cause must be judged on its merits: Is the end to 397 which it is directed so important as to warrant it...
...That would be like talking about hell without fire...
...To get back to Vietnam, my concern is for the most likely way to stop the war...
...Is it likely to serve the end...
...We have only to think back to the Algerian war...
...I myself, if I know myself, would refuse to fight in Vietnam whatever it might cost me...
...Henry Pachfer I assume each of the respondents will begin by rejecting your condition葉o discuss the Vietnam war "apart from urgent expressions of anxiety...
...There was one of the great Gandhi's hunger strikes葉hat over the representation of outcastes葉hat didn't seem to me to meet these tests even in the India of his day...
...In general, civil disobedience in a democracy, especially at a time when there is so much lawlessness, is to be justified only in situations justifying revolutionary action, in which case it may be not only ethically but practically preferable to violence...
...It is based on our concern for peace in itself and as a condition of growth of any sort of real freedom...
...I am referring now to clear-cut and acknowledged civil disobedience, not the breaking of some local law or police ordinance in itself believed to be unconstitutional...
...The riots have been riots, not examples of civil disobedience, violent or non-violent, except as clearly provoked by the aggression of police, Klansmen and the like...
...To get back to Vietnam, my concern is for the most likely way to stop the war...
...I think each case of civil disobedience in the service of a cause must be judged on its merits: Is the end to which it is directed so important as to warrant it...
...I have said that I would be a conscientious objector to fighting in Vietnam but I don't think I have an equal right of control over my own property in our modern democratic state...
...A wholesale strike against an identifiable and particularly iniquitous tax might be another matter...
...The question no longer is one of winning or losing, or of carrying out a policy, but of the price to be paid...
...The temptation to do so is very great if, as in the present case, the U.S...
...a position in the eyes of world opinion and probably that of the great majority of Vietnamese, sick of war and atrocities on both sides, which the Communists could not ignore...
...One shouldn't pick and choose the taxes he will pay...
...To use suicide by hunger to defeat the passage of a law is a form of undemocratic coercion...
...As soon as the atrocities became known and as soon as the military admitted they could not win without such atrocities, the colonial war turned into a civil war, and eventually even de Gaulle decided that France must withdraw...
...I know that we who have had so disastrous and stupid a Chinese policy can conquer neither China nor Communism in Southeast China by force of arms...
...In general there should be a return to the Geneva line of 1954 which called for neutralization, plus offers of American economic aid...
...but if that policy can be carried out only by terrorism, brutality and wanton murder of children, then it apparently defeats its purpose...
...Democracy's hope is in the realm of ideas and performance...
...government failed to reckon with the kind of escalation which it cannot, but its enemies can, increase to the breaking point Norman Thomas 396 I think all opponents of our war in Vietnam, and certainly the Left, should take what seems to me the most promising and reasonable line: Put every conceivable and possible effective pressure on the President to get him to implement his repeated desire for unconditional negotiations by dramatically calling for a cease-fire and an end to further outside aid, supervised by neutral nations, as a prelude to immediate negotiations in which the National Liberation Front should be recognized as a principal negotiator, not a tail to North Vietnam's kite...
Vol. 12 • September 1965 • No. 4
