Scouts &gays, Real Presence...
CORRESPONDENCE To the Editors Orientation, not behavior Paul Baumann's examination of the Boy Scouts' policy of excluding openly gay scoutmasters ("My Son the Boy Scout," October 12) rests...
...But since you don't think gay people can marry each other as straight people marry each other, and since the church believes celibacy is a gift some—not all—are given...
...It's in the breaking, sharing, eating, and drinking that Eucharist happens...
...The writer is executive director of New Ways Ministry...
...His address to them was a reminder of their personal moral responsibility to globalize solidarity—a typical example of his blending the personal and policy dimensions of solidarity...
...1. Isn't it simply a hallowed way of saying "the entire Jesus" when we say that in Holy Communion we receive "the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus...
...Virtuosos needed As a pre-Vatican II Catholic who respects the church, I read with interest James Davidson's "Yes, Jesus Is Really There...
...Why is it unacceptable to say simply that the Godman Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist (and can therefore be adored there) in some wonderful but mysterious and unique way...
...How can the explanation we term "transubstantiation" make any sense to sciCommonweal 35 November 9,2001 entific thought that does not explain material reality in the scholastic terms of substance, accidents, primary matter, and substantial form...
...It appears that the surveyors, Davidson, and the U.S...
...Why not say instead we believe that by divine power the God-man Jesus Christ is really and truly present in sacramental form...
...She also describes him as a "pro-choice bioethicist...
...At the same time, John Paul extols solidarity as a personal virtue, in line with Glendon's definition (it is a virtue that "inclines us to overcome sources of division within ourselves and within society...
...The Boy Scouts' policy discriminates on the basis not of what people do, but of who they are...
...Homosexuality is an orientation, regardless of whether or not one chooses to engage in sexual activity...
...Yes, the Scouts also dismiss heterosexual people for reasons of "immorality...
...During the consecration, the substance of bread and wine is transubstantiated into the body and blood of Jesus, but the accidents of bread and wine remain without substance...
...The reason I mention all this is that in his latest column, Paul Baumann said word-for-word the same thing my aunt said...
...Once the estrangement of science and religion is resolved, and the present chasm bridged, respect for church teaching will become firm...
...Do they give their heterosexual scoutmasters a morality test...
...I'll take Baumann at his word that he is not prejudiced, as he seems not to be...
...SIDNEY CALLAHAN Commonweal 37 November 9,2001...
...2. When we speak of Jesus present under "the appearance of bread and wine" (the two "species"), are we not speaking in a premodern academic way based on a dated vision of physical reality, a view that sees the universe as composed of only substance and accidents...
...It is important to remember," he said, "that the more global the market, the more it must be balanced by a global culture of solidarity that is attentive to the needs of the weakest...
...I envy my interlocutors' moral certainty, but when it comes to sexual morality, and matters of the heart generally, I think more is gained than lost by moving slowly across new frontiers...
...Well, as I said to my aunt, I have no problem if you feel sex is good and right only within marriage...
...it is confusing and doesn't help the conversation along...
...It seems to me that the Scouts are focusing on the sexual identity of a person rather than his moral or immoral behavior...
...In a recent conversation with my aunt, a Sister of Mercy for the last fifty-plus years, we talked about the fact that my dad, her brother-in-law, had recently come out as gay...
...Occasionally, Commonweal addresses this subject, and I look forward to more articles from "virtuoso" theologians...
...We know, for example, that the history of humanity in the Bible is not literal or historical, yet catechisms speak of them as real history and give the impression that doctrines depend on their historicity...
...The author replies: In regard to the letters of Francis DeBernardo and Joanne Blair, I believe the scoutmaster was dismissed because he became a spokesman for a university gay group and the Scouts thought that conduct incompatible with being a Boy Scout leader...
...Women's right to choose abortion, by contrast, he thinks reflects private suffering in hard situations...
...Do they include other behaviors they consider immoral...
...EUGENE J. SMITH Okemos, Mich...
...They think they are being fair when they relay how the church believes premarital and extramarital heterosexual activity is just as sinful as homosexual activity...
...Why must we be so insistent on an Aristotelian concept of substance and substantial change...
...But I have two sets of questions that I think have to be answered clearly if we ever intend to hand on eucharistic doctrine thoughtfully to today's Catholics...
...So, please, don't conflate all of these things into one...
...You see where I am going here...
...Neither the surveyors, nor Davidson, nor the American Catholic bishops in their recent "Real Presence" document, gives a complete Catholic understanding of the Real Presence...
...What would "marriage" mean then...
...The doctrine of transubstantiation is based, in part, on the writings of Aristotle and Aquinas, who hold that material bodies are composed of accidents and substance...
...But as I understand it, he primarily objects to scientists following the technological imperative to do whatever can be done without moral considerations or any respect for the embryo...
...Doesn't square In her September 14 column, "Philosopher on Call," Sidney Callahan states that her husband Daniel morally disapproves of "funding Commonweal 36 November 9,2001 more research that would involve further destruction of embryos...
...She had been making progress with the fact that two of her nephews (my brother and I, to be specific) are gay, but this latest revelation seemed a bit much...
...However, it seems hard to reconcile the two statements in quotations...
...CORRESPONDENCE To the Editors Orientation, not behavior Paul Baumann's examination of the Boy Scouts' policy of excluding openly gay scoutmasters ("My Son the Boy Scout," October 12) rests on a faulty definition of homosexuality as behavior...
...it's a process endemic to the realm of the imagination...
...It's in the dying and the rising that we are baptized into Christ...
...Of course—and this may be Glendon's point—there is no church blueprint that lays out precisely how to make solidarity a reality either in U.S...
...Basically, gay sex equals premarital sex equals no sex since the church doesn't recognize the right (and the rite) of gay people to marry each other...
...Take, for example, a little-publicized meeting he had in Rome on May 2,2000, with leaders of international organizations of employers, financiers, and unions...
...Loss of confidence The decline in the proper understanding of the Holy Eucharist and the consequent decline in reverence and adoration, are not phenomena in isolation...
...paul baumann Solidarity forever In her highly informative October 12 article, "The Sources of 'Rights Talk,'" Mary Ann Glendon asserts that "the church teaches solidarity not as a policy but as a virtue...
...Pope John Paul II exemplifies that complementary approach in his teachings on solidarity, as well as on human rights...
...Is simply being homosexual immoral in Boy Scout eyes...
...Perhaps they have an immorality checklist...
...As to what "basic" adds to "sexual morality," I will leave him to explain...
...Actually, the church teaches solidarity as both a policy (or as a set of policies) and a virtue...
...Are there not reputable Catholic theologians who say that in spite of popular teaching and understanding, transubstantiation is not a truth defide definita...
...connell j. maguire Riviera Beach, Via...
...In process Regarding James Davidson's article on the Real Presence: Because I believe that the sacraments are active, not static, my theology is expressed by way of participles...
...Even to the moderately educated, the doctrines entwined with primitive anthropology and science appear artificial...
...Do we really think that his glorified body has blood flowing through it...
...My problem is with the caveat always added by good, decent, religious folk (like my aunt and Baumann) when discussing gay issues...
...The "General Instruction of the Roman Missal," chapter II, article 7, reads in part: "Christ is really present in the assembly gathered in his name...
...That's the responsibility of lay people, undertaken at their own initiative, at their own risk, in cooperation with others—and inspired by the virtue of solidarity...
...I might fall in love with Mr...
...Faith in the Real Presence is not an intellectual exercise...
...Give me a break...
...I figure if she can make some headway on how to think about gay issues, then so can he, and by extension, so can Commonweal...
...In his column, Baumann writes the following: "For many religious people, the immorality of same-sex relations (and extra- and premarital relations, for that matter) is a question of basic sexual morality, not unmotivated prejudice...
...BILL BRODERICK Arlington, Va...
...ANDREW A. GALLIGAN Tracy, Calif...
...Really, really present Concerning James Davidson's October 12 article "Yes, Jesus is Really There," I offer the following: This business of discussing surveys about Catholic lay understanding of Christ's Real Presence in the Eucharist is somewhat misleading...
...Stephen Hagerty's question about gay marriage is a difficult one, but I don't see how marriage could be extended to same-sex couples without logically extending it to polygamous unions and other groupings...
...Their source, as in other matters, is a loss of confidence in the church as teacher...
...Right and want to get married in the church in the meantime...
...As for Baumann, let's not wait thirty years for him to figure out where he stands on this issue...
...I have great respect for Daniel Callahan's work and views in the field of bioethics...
...I find this position logically inconsistent and socially destructive...
...Robert a. senser Reston, Va...
...Can there not be some other legitimate explanation as to the "how" of eucharistic presence, for example, some form of transignification or transfinalization...
...My larger point, however, was that even if they are wrong about the morality of homosexual acts, the Scouts still should have the right to determine the criteria for membership in their own organization...
...I suspect that the current confusion among Catholics (young and old) may reflect this incoherent dilemma in Catholic doctrine...
...FRANCIS DeBERNARDO Mount Rainier, Md...
...Stephen p. hagerty Brooklyn, N.Y...
...This issue is not one of sexual morality, as Baumann claims, but of social justice...
...HERMAN KNOBLE State College, Pa...
...domestic policy or in global policy...
...This is also stated in the Vatican II document, Sacrosanctum consilium (article 21) and in Pope Paul VI's encyclical Mysteriumfidei...
...Morality test Regarding Paul Baumann's October 12 column: As far as I am concerned, his "hesitation and fence-straddling" look no better today than do the past apologetics of Southern segregationists...
...What meaning does that cosmology have for anyone conversant with modern physics...
...Accidents inhering in no substance contradict the original premise on which matter is based...
...He is often remarkably explicit on policy issues—his call for the reduction or cancellation of the debt of poor countries, his endorsement of the United Nations and the UN International Labor Organization, his support of labor's right to organize, his advocacy of openness to immigration, his condemnation of racial discrimination, and so on...
...Most mainstream religious bodies, Catholicism included, consider sexual orientation an important and innate part of an individual's personality and believe that discrimination based on orientation violates a person's intrinsic human dignity...
...This disconnect in practice makes it difficult to measure belief in the "Real Presence...
...But when you get around to gay issues, I become dismayed...
...Don't wait thirty years I like Commonweal, I really do...
...Brava to her...
...By being open to the movement of sacramental grace, we are proclaiming the presence of Christ in ourselves and one another...
...bishops, to a certain extent, have done just that...
...Despite evidence that fewer Catholics partake of the sacrament of reconciliation, I have observed that virtually all in attendance at Mass receive the Eucharist...
...Lest you think I am being too harsh about Commonweal's stance on gays, let me add that Sidney Callahan wrote the best article on gay marriage from a religious perspective I have ever read ( "Why I Changed My Mind," April 22,1994...
...Until such questions can be honestly asked in public and thoughtfully answered—without simply quoting the canons of Trent uncritically—I think the present ambivalence in Catholic belief in the Eucharist will continue and even worsen...
...NANCY SULLIVAN MURRAY Syracuse, N.Y...
...Commonweal 34 November 9,2001 he is present in the person of the minister, in his own word, and indeed substantially and permanently under the eucharistic elements...
...Some(Continued on page 34) Commonweal 4 November 9,2001 (Continued from page 4) times speech is conduct...
...Clearly it's Catholic teaching that these "Real Presences" of Christ are one and therefore cannot be separated...
...Part 1 of the otherwise splendid new Catechism of the Catholic Church is a case in point...
...The author replies: Dan's position is a convoluted argument that he should better make for himself...
...This contrary incidence of participation in the two sacraments differs from preVatican II days when more Catholics went to confession but fewer received Communion...
...And, if they do, is the focus solely on sexual behavior...
...Perhaps I am missing something, but clarification would be helpful...
...rev...
...JOANNE P. BLAIR Hamden, Conn...
...Beyond Aristotle Thanks for the interesting and informative article by James Davidson on our belief in the eucharistic presence of Jesus...
Vol. 128 • November 2001 • No. 19
