Correspondence:
FREEMAN, HILARY & BECKER, (REV.) MICHAEL & KING, JOE M. & MEIER, (REV.) JOHN P. & WOLFGANG, PETER J. & Johnson, Luke Timothy & Steinfels, Margaret O'Brien
CORRESPONDENCE It's unanimous Minneapolis, Minn. To the Editors: Liz Leibold McCloskey has added her voice ["Orphaned at Birth: Women in the Church," January 27] to those of the fanatics who want...
...Where else could we find his "fierce religious engagement" except in the interpretation given Jesus by the Gospels...
...Second, in discussing Catholic-Jewish relations, the current pope has closely followed (and strongly promoted) the Vatican II document Nostra aetate, which specifically repudiates the notion that all the Jews of Christ's time were responsible for his (Continued on page 58)CORRESPONDENCE (Continued from page 2) death, or that the Jews of today need to be "forgiven" for anything having to do with the death of Christ...
...A final point...
...These reflections naturally invite a response...
...Concretely: It is clear that the Synoptic Jesus cleanses the temple at the end of his public ministry...
...What does it mean to say that the church is "intrinsically bound up with God and revelation...
...To the Editors: Let me use the occasion of joining the Commonweal Associates to explain why I enjoy Commonweal...
...By now it may appear that I am displeased by Johnson's review-essay...
...PETER J. WOLFGANG From the editors: To Peter J. Wolfgang, multiple thanks...
...both aspects may indeed be historical, but the two are linked only by my false inference...
...It appears that many of the laity today simply reject the teaching authority of the church on matters that affect their daily lives...
...Thanks for publishing it...
...To the Editors: Margaret O'Brien Stein-fels' s article on "Dissent and Communion" in your 70th anniversary issue [November 18, 1994] prompted me to compare her thinking with my own, expressed in an unpublished essay...
...In tone, her piece was warmer...
...MICHAEL BECKER One more threshold Greenville, S. C. To the Editors: Peter Steinfels's review [January 13] of Pope John Paul II's Crossing the Threshold of Hope was extremely provocative...
...But Johnson seems to mean something more here, and seems to be using "the historical Jesus" in a very unusual sense that I find difficult to comprehend...
...John Paul II is not alone in saying that women cannot be ordained...
...But not Commonweal...
...In many ways it was home to me...
...I readily admit (as I did in volume 1 of A Marginal Jew) that coherence is not as strong a criterion as multiple attestation or discontinuity...
...2. If I read him correctly, Johnson does not accept the criterion of coherence as a warrant for any judgments about the historicity of material in the Gospels...
...Not quite Philadelphia, Pa...
...I will take up six points, roughly in the order in which they are treated in the review: 1. Professor Johnson objects to my linking Jesus' healings and exorcisms with Jesus' proclamation of the kingdom...
...And no matter how many pieces are accumulated, they cannot by themselves yield a meaningful pattern...
...Like Paul Elie in the same issue, I stand with "My Patron, Thomas the Doubter...
...I am at a loss to know who or what "the historical Jesus" championed by Johnson is-a harmonization of the four Gospels, a selection from among them, or something else...
...A large part of the hostility generated by the idea of women in the priesthood is surely caused by the "outrageous" symbol of a woman in priestly vestments standing at an altar...
...That the Johannine Jesus cleanses the temple at the beginning of his public ministry is clear...
...Now, one may dispute that these sayings come from the historical Jesus, though I argue at some length for their authenticity...
...I applaud the careful shuffling of Father Meier, but I think that the Jesus of the Gospels still guides his hand...
...Again, I am puzzled as to whether Johnson rejects any and all inferences drawn by questers for the historical Jesus or simply the ones he lists...
...Mere words, it seems...
...The reason is simple: What the method yields is what is historically verifiable, but it does not establish all that happened, or what was most important in what happened...
...Because the Roman church claims unbroken succession through history, sincerity and integrity should move the pope to make a very short but symbolic journey...
...but rather the meaning of those facts for those whose experience and memory of the person was also part of their historical reality...
...I continue to think that Meier, like many other historical-Jesus researchers, continues to use the narrative of the Gospels as an implicit and unacknowledged frame of reference...
...LUKE TIMOTHY JOHNSON From the cutting edge West Hartford, Conn...
...They can't really be explained...
...Yet almost all "questers" accept and use coherence as one of the major criteria of the quest, and with good reason...
...Steinfels, admit of doctrinal boundaries, but (at least, in this article) without probing the nature, validity, and scope of the church's claim to be a divinely founded and guided instrument for teaching essential religious and moral truths...
...In a recent issue of First Things, Richard John Neuhaus suggested that Commonweal has an "aging readership...
...We conclude that charlatanism is unthinkable for Jesus on the basis of the entire character of Jesus as "fiercely religious" and compassionate and genuine that is given by the Gospel narratives...and only there...
...In his view, this is an illegitimate linking of two different aspects of Jesus' ministry...
...If we were to do away entirely with arguing by way of inference, a notable part of ancient history, especially the history of ancient philosophy and religion, would disappear...
...I am puzzled by this objection, since Jesus himself links his exorcisms with the coming of the kingdom in Matt...
...1 l:2-6/Luke 7:18-23 Jesus implies that his various miracles are the fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecies about the end-time...
...The theological note attached to the doctrine is de fide catholica...
...Take also the line quoted by Meier concerning Jesus being "quite aware that God as creator had always been king...
...The problem is working with them without adequate controls...
...I'm not sure how true that is, but the three people I've sent gift subscriptions to-an actuary, a journalist, and a fellow-student at the University of Connecticut law school-are all in their twenties...
...3. Connected with Johnson's difficulty with the criterion of coherence is his difficulty with drawing "inferences" about the historical Jesus...
...The Jew Jesus of Nazareth had meaning-for some Jews tremendous meaning, positive or negative-during his public ministry, circa a.d...
...as much as possible, I try to combine it with some other argument...
...The distinction between orthopraxy and orthodoxy was quite insightful and valuable...
...obviously, it does not speak the last word...
...So does Highlights for Children...
...I on the magisterium, the claim to a divinely protected teaching authority...
...I admire the pope's personal piety and his actions of formally forgiving Jews regarding any part their forebears had in Christ's death, that he restored the good name of Galileo, and that he tenderly forgave the man who tried to kill him...
...I am in the grip of a powerful symbol...
...Despite my critique, "Dissent and Communion" was most thoughtful, stimulating, and far more learned than my own essay...
...If one wants to reject the link, one must argue against the authenticity of the sayings in the mouth of Jesus-something Johnson does not do...
...I explored anew Roman Catholicism on many levels, including the "scavi" beneath Saint Peter's and attending Masses at which John Paul presided in the great basilica...
...Along with them, and contrary to Johnson, I do not think that coherence can be so quickly dismissed as indicating only that something is "possible...
...Finally, Ms...
...I am impressed as well with the thousands of miles the pope has traveled to greet and bless multitudes throughout his pontificate...
...The notion of the Eucharist is itself a dogma, taught and either accepted as reliable truth or rejected...
...Is not even the statement, "if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you," compatible with religious charlatanism...
...In order to make his inference, Meier must implicitly invoke the portrait of Jesus given by the Gospel narratives...
...The point, however, is that, as the Gospel texts stand, it is Jesus, not Meier, who makes the connection between miracles and kingdom (or, alternately, the end-time that fulfills prophecy...
...I owe thanks also to Professor Johnson for his effort and good will, for offering a clear precis of the volume, and for venturing some methodological and hermeneutical reflections on it...
...28-30...
...I am a twenty-five-year-old believing Catholic who never went to Catholic schools (except for the seventh grade...
...Two things are troubling here: first, the implied dichotomy be-tweeen facts and their meaning, and second, the affirmation that what is essential to the person is not the facts of what he or she did or said...
...Mysteries or myths...
...5. Still more puzzling is Johnson's final paragraph, where he affirms that "we shall find that the 'historical Jesus' is just where he was all the time: in the fourfold testimony and interpretation of the Gospel narratives...
...What or how much does the historical Jesus who is present in the fourfold testimony of the Gospels know...
...I'd like to think we're on the cutting edge...
...Given the religious traditions of Israel and the fierce religious engagement of Jesus, the burden of proof must lie with anyone who would deny my proposition...
...And I also know from fairly recent experience that knowledge will free me, in time, from the shock...
...From the editors: Without addressing the other points of Dr...
...Meier is quite correct that the passages he cites place this linkage in the mouth of Jesus...
...JOHN F. BOYNE The author clarifies: I do not dismiss the magisterium or magisterial paraphernalia...
...Unfortunately, debates over epistemology and logic (as in distinguishing what's possible from what's probable in historiography) are great fun for the debaters-especially if they are drinking beer and yelling-but tend to give everyone else a headache...
...the facts of what was said and done...
...To purge Roman Catholicism of its darkest chapter, John Paul needs to cross one more threshold...
...Commonweal is the only one I will continue to renew...
...The reason is that of all these magazines, only Commonweal's voice, and particularly the voice of Margaret O'Brien Stein-fels, was crying out to the rest of the church, Rodney-King style, "Can't we all just get along...
...I looked mainly at the skeletal support...
...He can silently meditate in repentance and kiss the boulder while standing erect...
...Some who reject that authority leave the Catholic church, deeming it an unreliable guide to religious and moral truth...
...Steinfels mainly analyzed "orthopraxy" where I mainly probed "orthodoxy...
...mine, colder, even acerbic...
...On the pope's views of ecumenism, Steinfels says, "It is legitimate to ask how these views, expressed with passion, accord with the policies of John Paul's papacy...
...That the historical Jesus actually cleansed the temple toward the end of his public ministry is the consensus of questers using the criteria of historicity...
...REV...
...More to the point: The words and deeds of Jesus did not first assume meaning when they were remembered, reinterpreted, and in some cases created out of whole cloth by the early church...
...Meaning requires context...
...Steinfels seems to dismiss the magisterial "paraphernalia" because they matter little to the laity...
...he will judge us by whether we fed the hungry and gave drink to the thirsty...
...6. Most puzzling is Johnson's final affirmation that "what is essential to a person is not...
...But when does the historical Jesus who is present "in the fourfold testimony and interpretation of the Gospel narratives" cleanse the temple...
...But I know why I am shocked...
...4. One example of this point is Johnson's objection to my inference that "nourished as he was on the Scriptures of Israel, Jesus was quite aware that God as creator had always been king...
...The Johannine Jesus does know all things...
...That is why I try as much as possible not to decide the historicity of a particular deed or saying of Jesus by coherence alone...
...Thank God...
...To Richard John Neuhaus, an ever-so-gentle reminder: First Things also has an aging readership (and editor...
...JOE M. KING The writer is emeritus professor of religion at Furman University...
...In his frail health, he will not even need to stoop and kiss the ground...
...To the Editors: Re: Paul Baumann's "Where Symbols Really Matter" [January 27]: Few people seem to understand the power of symbols...
...In fact, if you can explain it, you are not dealing with a true symbol...
...just as Professor Johnson disagreed with me on a number of points, I would question some of his observations...
...Catholic...
...That the "Petrine ministry" is "a constitutive principle of each particular church...
...JOHN P. MEIER The reviewer replies: I will begin this comment on John Meier's courteous response to my review of his book by reaffirming the main point of the review, which was that he was doing about as good a job as possible with the task as it has been defined...
...Casti connubii, precursor of Humanae vitae, is a termite that has eaten through to the very foundations of the church, in my mind...
...When one begins by discarding the Gospel narrative framework, and sets about testing each piece in isolation, then the invocation of coherence and the drawing of inferences get tricky...
...Steinfels assumes communion...
...an aging readership (and editor...
...It is the Jesus who was radically obedient to God and selfless in giving to others that is inscribed in these narratives...
...These essays demonstrated a desire to be open-minded and objective that I rarely saw from other writers grappling with the same issues...
...I wonder about it...
...Inference is not automatically "false inference...
...didn't leave much of an impression) and never has taken a course in religion...
...Moreover, in Matt...
...I found the polarization within the church shocking, and many of the publications I tried were contributing to it...
...REV...
...If they are so certain and so wrong on contraception, what else are they wrong on...
...That the four Gospels constitute the main source for reconstructing the historical Jesus is a truism for almost everyone...
...Finally, what I mean by the historical Jesus being the Jesus of the Gospels is that the character of Jesus is available historically only in these narratives (and, I would argue, also in the narrative fragments of other New Testament writings...
...In the final analysis, orthopraxy is the more important matter...
...Another example: The Marcan Jesus does not know all things-including the date of the parousia...
...So does Highlights for Children...
...On the contrary, I am delighted that, in true scholarly fashion, he took the occasion to raise some basic questions of method and thus invite dialogue on the subject...
...Meier is right: This is Jesus as perceived by the only ones who bothered to remember him...
...I loved it when you went toe-to-toe with Catholics for a Free Choice...
...To be sure, still others, like Ms...
...Notwithstanding, doctrine is important...
...Of course it is...
...This letter has tried to contribute to the dialogue...
...She is clearly more knowledgeable about church teaching since Vatican II...
...Commonweal challenges the church in ways that it should be challenged, but always from a position of respect...
...Steinfels focused on communion and its conditions...
...If I remember the Gospel description of the Last Judgment, God will judge us not by whether we are Arians or Hindus or the most papal of Catholics...
...That simple gesture would convey more about Christian unity and healing than a million miles the pope might travel in an airplane...
...It is insufficient to say that we must rally round the Eucharist...
...King's letter, we note, first, that John Paul II has expressed the need to "correct the record" with respect to John Hus, as well as deploring other specific unjust actions by church leaders and members (see: "The Perils of Penance," October 21,1994...
...So I will keep this brief...
...As I point out in my review, it is impossible to infer from an isolated statement by anyone that person's state of mind or "awareness...
...Now I have let most of these subscriptions lapse...
...To the Editors: Liz Leibold McCloskey has added her voice ["Orphaned at Birth: Women in the Church," January 27] to those of the fanatics who want to see women priests, and of course she has produced not one shred of evidence for her view...
...Take the example he cites, of linking exorcisms and the kingdom of God...
...But he should say to the world that he means by this act to say, "We are sorry and ask forgiveness for the Roman Catholic church for all the horrible acts committed by the church in the medieval Inquisition...
...Jersey City, N.J...
...When we try to bypass the shape of that memory, all we have are pieces that can be shuffled at random...
...She looked mainly at the flesh and blood...
...It was this meaning which-at least in part-unleashed as well as explained his execution, the ongoing impact of his life in the years immediately after his death, and the subsequent reinterpretations of his life by the early church in the following decades of the first century...
...My difficulties have to do much more with the definition of the task...
...What struck me most of all was the different focal point on the same topic...
...The church's teaching on this point is found in Scripture, tradition, canon law, the unanimous consensus of the fathers and doctors of the church, and all reliable theology manuals...
...To me it is inconceivable that a deeply religious first-century Palestinian Jew, cognizant of Israel's sacred writings, especially Isaiah and the Psalms, would not be aware of such a central truth...
...one must decide each case on its merits...
...Ecclesial communion and the norms of orthodoxy are likewise doctrines, taught and either accepted or rejected...
...I regret that a quick move from one point to the next made it seem so...
...I drifted away shortly after that and have not kept up with the latest twists and turns...
...12:28/Luke 11:20, and similar sayings occur in Mark 3:24-27...
...But that does not mean they should not matter...
...It would be to Constance, where in 1415-16 the church allowed and encouraged the burning at the stake of John Hus and Jerome of Prague...
...MARGARET O'BRIEN STEINFELS The quest for Jesus Washington, D.C...
...The historical Jesus constructed by most questers would basically jibe on this point with the Marcan Jesus...
...Works on the methodology of history, such as C. Behan McCullagh's Justifying Historical Descriptions, see inference as a basic mode of arguing about historical questions...
...I do not know now whether the church teaches mysteries or myths...
...rather than adding to the tension you helped to defuse it-for example, by the amusing editorial on the fictional encyclical defending Notre Dame's right to be "Numero Uno" in football [January 28, 1994], and Margaret O'Brien Steinfels's essay, "Dissent and Communion" [November 18, 1994], and her articles on similar themes in America and U.S...
...I also appreciate your willingness to challenge the other challengers...
...Some others remain, but settle for warm fuzzies on Sunday morning...
...In college, I developed a craving for an adult faith and tried to satisfy it, partly by subscribing to a number of periodicals...
...By no means do I reject the notion that inference and something like a criterion of coherence are valuable and necessary in historiography...
...But, because John Paul became overly authoritarian and reactionary visa-vis Vatican II, I am now a Baptist-Catholic-Methodist...
...As an ordained Baptist minister who is retired after teaching church history and biblical studies on the seminary and university level for forty years, I rejoiced greatly in the work of John XXIII and Paul VI-so much so that I entered the Roman Catholic church with great expectations...
...It has nothing to do with theology or with biblical tradition...
...I simply question whether we can move on that basis to broader statements concerning the historical character of Jesus' ministry, and above all his understanding of that ministry...
...As an Episcopalian priest, I am currently trying to get over the shock I always experience at the sight of a woman, wearing earrings and stiletto heels, clothed in a cope and miter...
...Historians may someday explore the oddity that a pope of romantic, heroic, Christocentric outlook should preside over the triumph of authoritarian, bureaucratic, and centralizing forces in the church...
...To the Editors: Many thanks for providing so much space for Professor Luke Timothy Johnson's review-essay of volume 2 of my study, A Marginal Jew ['Telling the Gospel Story," November 18, 1994...
...Hilary freeman, o.p...
...Today on that site, John Paul will find a large boulder...
...It is therefore certain, connected with revelation, infallibly proposed for belief, and irreversible...
Vol. 122 • February 1995 • No. 4
