Correspondence
Correspondence Eliminating torture Washington, D.C. To the Editors: Rev. Alfred Krass ["A World of Torture," May 3] reported perceptively on the welcome unanimous adoption by the General Assembly...
...The author emphasizes the analysis of the moral problems people had to face during World War II, but deemphasizes problems related to today's nuclear armaments...
...Seldom in history does a situation repeat itself...
...I do not know the "master of the spiritual life, William Johnston," but I think he was closer to the truth than Mr...
...Do good to those who persecute and calumniate you 4 October 1985: 541 . . . Turn the other cheek," etc...
...It is a philosophical construct that was introduced into Christian thinking after the church had been incorporated into the political establishment...
...Not a single report of torture in Nicaguara was recorded...
...Senate...
...But the vengeful, oppressive Treaty of Versailles prepared the way for Hitler...
...Systematic reasoning over the situation of the world in 1940, and over the position that people had to take at that time if concerned about justice and peace, lead to the conclusion that pacifism was not acceptable...
...I remember when we entered World War I, we were told, to remove the Kaiser and "make the world safe for democracy...
...But, it is better to face squarely what requires faith, than to spuriously suppose that some historical analysis will answer the question...
...Most Protestants are reasonably satisfied with their current churches, whether they should be or not...
...These were some of the "hard" sayings that made people turn away from Jesus...
...Historically, the thirteen colonies showed the way to live together: with a written piece of paper, and authorities with power to make decisions to be accepted by everybody...
...We have made idols of capitalism and national security, made them absolutes, so that any threat to them justifies military action...
...Ambrose who, significantly, was an officer in the Roman Army before he became a bishop...
...The Holy See now has formal diplomatic recognition with over 100 nations, the largest number in history...
...It seems to me that no political, economic, or religious ideology can justify such human slaughter...
...In war we are really defending an economic ideology — economic capitalism — more specifically, an American-based multinational capitalism...
...Faith in God that has created man in his image...
...As John McKenzie once wrote: "Jesus taught us how to die, not how to kill...
...I happen to agree with Brecht that the womb that gave birth to Hitler is still alive...
...Perhaps the author would be interested in my view of the events that led from the First World War to the Second, and on to the present...
...In the ecumenical enterprise, worship unites, discussion divides...
...championed the cause of the poor and the outcast...
...To my greatest grief, Hitler came to power not by upheaval but by legal means...
...Whatever their outward form, Protestant churches are radically con-gregationalist in practice...
...The scandal of Bitburg was a consequence of that macabre comradeship...
...Lest we forget: Pacifists resist — peacefully and nonviolently, but they do resist...
...I don't think there has ever been a just war on the basis of this theory because the conditions for a just war have never been met, and modern weapons of destruction, even "conventional" weapons, have made meeting those conditions a moot question...
...As to nuclear armaments, I dare not judge the conscience of any person, keeping in mind Matthew 7:1...
...Faith in God that will not permit Hitler to prevail...
...But he does not seem to give enough importance in his reasoning to the enormous difference in the power of destruction between 1939 and 1985...
...The implication in Lincoln's sentence and the answer to the integral pacifist philosophy are the same: there is no rational basis to state that "you cannot fool all the people all the time," nor is there a rational basis to state that only the integral pacifist position can save mankind today...
...So does war...
...To the Editors: Peter Steinfels ["Appointment with Hitler," July 12] aptly calls pacifists to confront the most convincing argument against pacifism: What would have been the result if Hitler had not been opposed militarily, or would it not have been better to militarily squash him before he did so much harm...
...Upon occasion he even used a form of violence in resisting evil as when he overturned the moneychangers' tables and drove them out of the temple, teaching us to use at least a non-lethal resistance to evil...
...But what the militaries and many politicians are planning and doing, objectively speaking, I consider a millionfold crime, a crime crying to the heavens...
...all the wars in that time were fought for economic reasons, for access to markets, raw materials, or cheap labor...
...it is a rare {Continued on page 540) Commonweal: 514 Correspondence (Continued from page 514) minister who can get too far ahead of his flock on any issue, doctrinal, ethical, or political, and still expect to hold on to his pulpit...
...It was introduced by St...
...The "just war theory" is not something you will find in the Gospel message...
...We entered World War II to remove Hitler and protect the' 'Four Freedoms.'' But in doing so we produced a strengthened, as well as brutal, Stalin...
...we make history by our decisions and our actions...
...It seems that the time has come to concentrate our attention on the relationship between the nation state and the international community, and accept the jurisdiction of the international community over the national states...
...Jesus did not ignore evil...
...A. J. DURELLI Professor Emeritus, Catholic University A telling absence...
...He taught us that the value of human life and of the human person is something innate and inalienable...
...Similar reasoning about the situation of the world in 1985 by people equally concerned about justice and peace, leads to the conclusion that "defense," "armaments," "nuclear bombs" and "star wars" are not acceptable...
...the definition of "innocent" becomes murky...
...JOHN E. LAWYER, JR...
...Letters to limbo White Plains, N.Y...
...JAVAN KIENZLE Macabre comrades Heidelberg, West Germany To the Editors: I read with bated breath Peter Steinfels's "Appointment with Hitler" [July 12...
...ARTHUR RIFKIN Disquiet zone Peoria, 111...
...Frequent church-hopping is a symptom of the virtual absence of any top-down teaching authority or discipline, the opposite problem from the occasional authoritarianism which Jim says needs closer constitutional checks on the Catholic side of the house...
...As such, it was an especially humiliating effect of the fatal anti-Communist obsession of both West Germany and the United States...
...Then our discussions on pacifism and militarism will fall within a framework of thinking in which they will have consistent meaning...
...denounced the self-seeking and oppressive exercise of power by religious leaders...
...After Hitler's criminal adventure, instead of a radical change of mind there followed a repression...
...we now fear that he may be sentenced to the ultimate limbo of a "psychiatric ward" at the penal camp...
...We are not victims of some inexorable and inanimate historical process...
...The only basis for the answer is faith...
...The difference in the ability to destroy the whole world (and not necessarily deliberately) changes the nature of the problem...
...To even ask this sort of question is to realize how impossible it is to answer, because the sum of innocent suffering on both sides of the equation is not a number that can be derived with any accuracy...
...To the Editors: Peter Steinfels's article ["Appointment With Hitler," July 12] could give muddled minds the impression that appeasers and pacifists are one and the same...
...I welcomed, with reservations, the change of si vis pacem, para bellum to si vis pacem, para pacem on the occasion of the Kellogg-Briand Pact...
...Just one example: If we support the government of Guatemala economically and militarily, how responsible are we for the great suffering of its people...
...Not a few of these nations are Catholic — El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Haiti, Chile, and others...
...He expressly intended the extermination of the Jews and a new world war...
...LEON SULLIVAN To sully the name Southfield, Mich...
...But perhaps even the present Senate will not refuse to make torture an international crime...
...Further, the terms of the question are fluid...
...Rely on conviction Great Neck, N.Y...
...To the Editors: All my disquieting feelings of frustrating ambiguity over the issue of pacifism and the "just war theory" were revived when I read Peter Steinfels's article ["Appointment with Hitler," July 12...
...Don't sully the name of pacifism by tarring it with the brush of appeasement...
...Steinfels is willing to admit...
...What about the people in Asia who lost freedom and suffered terribly during the twentieth century...
...The "good German" says, "I was a concentration camp guard because the choice was the Russian front and almost certain death," or, "I fought because to refuse meant certain death...
...Where do we put the suffering of innocents caused by misguided or malicious economic and social practices...
...This sort of totting up of right and wrong and suffering, I am convinced, cannot answer the question of the validity of pacifism...
...Bitburg was a blasphemy to their memory, committed by the representatives of the two states and peoples most concerned...
...The free press soldiers on magnificently with frequent articles about Sakharov and other such well-known men and women whose basic human rights are being daily abused, but seldom does a major publication mention by name these lesser known heroes, such as Iesmantas, whose sacrifice for art is just as poignant...
...And, excuse me for saying it, the Americans supported this reinstatement and even advanced it by returning prominent Nazis to high positions...
...Should any of your readers feel moved to send him a single postcard of encouragement from one lover of literature to another, the address to which we send him mail is: SSSR RSFSR Moskva uvht 5110/0 Vs-389/36 IESMANTAS, Gintautas Union of Soviet Socialist Republics We do not expect replies to our letters, but the little gleam of hope that "someone out there cares" must be of some comfort to him...
...Commonweal: 542 But Hitler's criminal plans required a different response...
...Did we fight to preserve liberty...
...And now we have two antagonistic superpowers armed to the teeth with awesome nuclear weapons, poised to kill hundreds of millions of people including millions, perhaps, who are ready to declare a' 'pox" on both houses...
...Yes, pacifism leads to terrible sufferCommonweal: 540 ing of the innocent...
...ALFONS BEIL Surpassing the state College Park, Md...
...Our ally was the Soviet Union where for decades liberty had been extinguished...
...In the Garden of Gethsemane he told Peter to put his dagger away because his cause was not served by that kind of violence...
...The article seemed to imply that we entered World War U in order to save the Jews from Hitler's brutality...
...They were beaten at their game by civilian people and internationally minded people...
...I thank Peter Steinfels for his thoughtful essay...
...He taught us that there are values worth suffering for and worth dying for, but not worth killing for...
...If they are unhappy, they easily switch to a more congenial worshipping community...
...I also feel, however, that World War II is over...
...Sermons, unless insufferably vague, tend to work the other way...
...How can you justify the fire-bombing of Hamburg, Dresden, Tokyo, and Osaka where thousands of men, women, and children were burned alive...
...I returned from the war in 1918 with the conviction that the German government, while not the only culprit, was chiefly responsible for that slaughter...
...To the Editors: Peter Steinfels's article [ "Appointment with Hitler," July 12] is published with the subtitle "Confronting the Moral Question of World War II...
...not a situation conducive to any tiemonstrably superior answer, not an argument that can be answered decisively by a coercive, logical, and rational presentation...
...It then boils down to one person's intuitive belief versus another's...
...Perhaps Vatican diplomats could use their considerable moral power to help attain Amnesty International's ambition of eliminating torture from the face of the earth by the year 2000...
...This of course does not answer the questions raised by Steinfels and by the integral pacifists...
...This is especially the case when the worship focuses on shared prayer and Eucharist, since both can validly carry a diversity of meanings to a diversity of people, while at the same time affirming our shared unity...
...Krass, as the chairperson of American Christians for the Abolition of Torture, will be working for the ratification of this document by the U.S...
...So I regretted that France and Great Britain disarmed, and still consider it their historic guilt...
...The United States Senate has ratified only five of the least controversial of the nineteen major conventions which have emerged from the United Nations...
...MARY PENTCHEFF Ecumenical talk St...
...Your readers may be interested to learn that lesmantas continues to write despite punishment...
...Last July he and his family were interrogated yet again by the KGB...
...The apparent deadend at which integral pacifism may arrive brings to mind Lincoln's statement that: you can fool all the people some of the time, some of the people all the time, but not all the people all the time...
...What about the millions who were enslaved by the Soviets before World War II and after...
...Sax so movingly describes the situation of Gintautas Iesmantas, the imprisoned Lithuanian poet...
...If the Germans (not Hitler — we seem to assume that Hitler single-handedly did all the horrible acts he directed) did not complete the murder of all the Jews, was that benefit worth the cost of thirty million lives lost in the war...
...I see it as derisive of not only the victims of Auschwitz, but of the Allied soldiers who died battling the Nazis...
...I can look back over three quarters of a century...
...In one of his franker moments, John Foster Dulles said: "We have no permanent friends and no permanent enemies, only permanent interests...
...If that tells against the ordination of women, what can we conclude from the dogma that there were no men present at the Annunciation...
...If it was right to stop the Germans from enslaving Europe, was it right to stand by as the Soviet government put millions of its citizens in Gulags...
...The theory was further promoted by his famous disciple, St...
...A precise calculus of one versus the other is impossible...
...To the Editors: On behalf of the members of Group 42 of Amnesty International, U.S.A., I would like to tell you how gratified we were to read the article by Boria Sax ["With Blood and Indelible Ink," May 17] in which Mr...
...Secondly, I suspect there is a deeper reason behind the lack of discussion on changes that might be necessary within Protestant churches that Jim noted...
...Militarism and nationalism were the enemy in 1940...
...Obviously not everybody has that faith...
...one is implicitly asked to agree or disagree with the points advanced, thus focusing on differences...
...and instead of a new beginning, a restoration...
...We were given many reasons for our Vietnam involvement, but the real reason was, again, economics...
...To the Editors: About John Paul II's logic ["The Two Popes of the Lowlands," June 21], so "there were no women present at the Last Supper...
...Is it ethical to restrict our responsibility to suffering that occurs when one nation invades another, and give the nation carte blanche for what it does to its own citizens...
...Sadly, for the moment, that is all we can do — care...
...Of course there is an important place for reasoned dialogue among Christians of different persuasions, but such discussions as presently conceived, it seems to me, presupppose the unity and mutual acceptance which they are trying to create...
...Prospects for that ratification are not optimistic...
...A deep philosophical analysis like the one that Steinfels is attempting should raise the question to Lincoln: "Why not...
...Living in the real world, he denounced the structural injustice and the social ills of his day...
...He defiantly underwent a ten-day hunger strike which was terminated by forced-feeding and instant return to hard labor in below-freezing temperatures...
...Here again there is an implicit ecumenical imperative: a free-wheeling and highly individualist Protestantism needs the anchorage of a more established structure, doctrine, and tradition, as much as Catholicism could profit by the type of lay leadership, congregational involvement, and open authority structures modeled by most Protestant churches...
...Alfred Krass ["A World of Torture," May 3] reported perceptively on the welcome unanimous adoption by the General Assembly of the United Nations, on December 10, 1984, of the "Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment...
...Paul, Minn...
...GERARD HINRICHS 4 October 1985: 543...
...The Holocaust and the Second World War were perpetrated legally in the name of our people...
...Amnesty International, one of the prime movers in the adoption by the United Nations of the Treaty Against Torture, issued in 1984 a searing 263-page report on the horrors and incidence of torture in one-third of the nations of the earth...
...Steinfels well recognizes that...
...Given this situation, I rely on the intuitive conviction — supported by what I consider the best witness of the religious geniuses of the past — that deliberately harming someone is wrong, unless it is transient, non-lethal harm for the sake of helping the person such as chemotherapy for cancer or physically subduing a mentally ill person about to harm himself or others...
...On the one hand, it seems to me that if Jesus taught us anything on this issue, it was that his followers should be pacifists...
...Blessed are the peacemakers . . . Love your enemies...
...I agree that wars "solve some problems" but solve them in the wrong way, producing, as a result, new problems...
...Militarism and nationalism are the enemy today, and they cannot be defeated by making fascists out of people...
...most of the numbers would be based on speculation about what would have happened if something different had occurred...
...Iesmantas's case has been assigned to our group as one of our adopted prisoners-of-conscience on whose behalf we write letters to authorities in an attempt to gain their release or, at the very least, to let the persecutors know that someone follows the case...
...How innocent are we of the Holocaust if we made unconvincing and ineffective efforts to rescue the victims...
...Johnston wrote: "If there is a nuclear war (which God forbid), it will be fought for money, for oil, and for petrodollars...
...Appeasers do not resist: They bow down and knuckle under...
...Augustine...
...ROBERT F. DRINAN, SJ...
...The growing impatience among Protestant and Catholic laity at the increasingly artificial restrictions on full intercommunion at the parish level is a prophetic sign which our various hierarchies should take more seriously than they do...
...Petersburg, Fla...
...That is not my memory of events, but since I spent most of the war years in a Japanese camp, I don't know if there was much talk about the plight of the Jews as the war went on...
...I was a pacifist, and my thinking ran along the lines of Friedrich Wilhelm Foerster...
...Furthermore, the higher the denominational authority, the more unlikely it is that the average churchgoer will even know what it has said, much less be influenced by it, unless, for example, "the people in New York" have hit upon a particular sore spot such as providing church funds to allegedly Communist-influenced liberation groups...
...John's, I greatly enjoyed his conclusions ["Lenny Bruce Principle," July 12], and would like to add two notes of my own...
...Are we to limit it to the horrible deeds of the Germans in a particular period...
...Philosophically, that is in the best tradition of Catholicism...
...If the ethical question is to be answered by attempting to decide whether peace or war leads to more justice and less suffering, no clear answer seems possible...
...To the Editors: As one of Jim O'Gara's colleagues last year at the Ecumenical Institute at St...
...It may seem beneficial to me or my loved ones to kill someone else, but if I believe that the continuation of life is not the only or highest end, the conviction that I am in line with the ethic of love that is beyond numerical calculus, should be overriding...
Vol. 112 • October 1985 • No. 17
