THE VATICAN'S OSTPOLITIK

...Once they share national political power, however, it is very likely that the Communists will prove not to be the miracle workers that they claim to be...

...Clearly some early future dialogues need to focus on fundamental, more theoretical issues, with delegations picked accordingly (hopefully with a fuller representation of women experts), and some need to concentrate on more immediate practical issues, again with appropriate personnel--just as in the Ecumenical Movement, where there are "faith and order" (i.e., theoretical) and "life and work" (i.e., practical) issues and Consonant agencies and activities...

...The Vatican, though, represents not only a sovereign nation, but also a major religion, and is thus expected to reflect that religion's moral principles in its diplomatic activity...

...With a first step behind us, I look forward to a second step...

...Pope Paul's Kissinger" is wary of seeking broader-based agreements such as full diplomatic relations or concordats...

...The Holy See is not in a position to grant trade concessions or distribute military aid...

...stereotypes began to be replaced by real positions and real persons...

...The Journal el Ecumenical Studies is one of the few American journals that regularly carried such material, but many European magazines have...

...The Marxists publicly insisted time and again that they in the Communist world were "firmly committed to peaceful co-existence between the East and the West on the long term, and not just as a short-term tactic," as one Soviet put it...

...As parties of government, because of their strengthened domestic base, their need to maintain electoral support, and their desire not to alienate non-Communist government partners, Western European CPs will likely maintain and even reinforce their independence from Moscow...

...But they changed--and became not less, but more, truly Catholic in the process...

...There is a significant Catholic population in Lithuania, but there the Soviet authorities have severely restricted seminary admissions and have often tried to discredit the aging Church hierarchy...

...In 1972, diocesan boundaries were redrawn to conform to the post-1945 border between Poland and East Germany...

...But he objects to agreements betwcen Warsaw and the Vatican which do not directly improve the Church's position at the local level...

...Statements like those of Pius XII denouncing godless Communism or examples like Joszef Cardinal Mindszenty in bitter opposition to the Hungarian government might satisfy Western critics demanding a tougher stand on Communism...

...Under the circumstances, the agreement was rather tolerant, and bilateral relations have been satisfactory...

...lines for these negotiations and even had some success at them, it seems to be getting more difficult to progress with specific local problems...

...This view has received reinforcement from the ranks of the exiled Soviet dissidents...

...In East Germany, Hungary, Poland and Yugoslavia, most of the major barriers to Church-State dialogue have been overcome...

...The answer to the question, can Christian-Marxist dialogue happen...

...They have also encouraged the Soviet authorities to take a more cynical attitude toward religion...

...In most cases, they would require far more Church-State consensus than presently exists, and would probably illuminate rather than alleviate the problems the two sides now have...

...His "champagne period" is probably passing, but his influence will continue to be felt...

...Does it happen...

...In at least four respects, the ascendance of the Western CPs offers the prospect for positive development t o which Western policy-makers should be alert to encourage and careful not to stifle...

...We know that the atmosphere alone cannot solve the problems," Casaroli has commented...

...But, Casaroli replies, while the Cold War bloomed, the Church in Eastern Europe suffered...

...Thanks to his efforts, it is now normal in Eastern Europe for Church and State to discuss their differences and, to a degree different in each country, to strive for a solution...

...The new skepticism toward d~tente---both papal and presidentialmhas also illuminated some basic differences between Vatican and conventional diplomacy...

...The Marxist partners do not always have the necessary minimal freedom and self-critical attitude...

...Should the Holy See "refuse to negotiate with atheists" and restrict itself to religious and moral exhortations to Catholics around the world...

...There is no reason to believe that Catholics would gain greater freedom if the Vatican were to set out on a confrontation course...

...Weiler and Dr...

...the political strength of Communist parties in Finland, Iceland and Luxembourg...

...The atmosphere has been changing since the early 1960s, and there is some increased freedom for Church leaders and a dialogue between the Vatican and the local governments...

...Casaroli, they say, puts too much emphasis on "summit diplomacy" and agreements with government officials and not enough on the problems of the local Church in question...

...As for Casaroli, he will probably continue his activity in Eastern Europe, especially in those countries where the Church is farthest from a solution...

...Anatoli Levitin-Krasov, the founder of religious samizdat in the Soviet Union, thinks that Casaroli's efforts to promote his Ostpolitik have only compromised the Vatican in the eyes of the Soviet people...

...Finally, the archbishop likes to ask, does the Vatican have an alternative to d~tente...

...Rome is compelled to stake all to preserve the life of the Church," it stated...

...This development could mean the d~nouement to whatever is left of Moscow's vision of a united world movement, the creation of an alternative form of European Communism for Eastern European Communists to compare with the Soviet brand of Communism, and the mitigation of the direct threat of the CPs to Western security (although Communist disarmament policies could still pose an indirect danger...

...The answer to these questions might not be yes, but it tends in that direction...

...Or should the Vatican be open to negotiations with the local governments if they offer the promise, however slight, of improving the lot of believers in that country and expanding the rights of the local Church...

...The most intense, forthright and fruitful public exchanges occurred in the morning and evening sessions of the last day, after a festive banquet the night before...

...Since then, Lekai has appeared in public with party leader Janos Kadar and has sought to promote Christian-Marxist cooperation in Hungary...

...That depends on the country...

...To certain critics---especially the PCI--this may seem inconsistent...

...Can it happen...

...Catholics know that until recently it was very difficult for them to enter into any dialogue--or to even appreciate what dialogue really meant--because the necessary freedom and self-critical attitude was largely lacking...

...Poggi's fact-finding tour this year, which concentrated heavily on travel through the country and discussions with the clergy, seems to have been a response to Wyszynski's complaint, The Vatican Ostpolitik's best spokesman is undoubtedly Archbishop Casaroli himself...

...It will be up to them to deal with Commonweal: 141 their governments within the framework Casaroli has helped to erect...

...Of course, in Poland, Church and State have had a cooperative-competitive relationship for years, and Cardinal Lekars calls for cooperation in Hungary sound like an historic compromise in reverse...

...As the proceedings of the recent meeting of 29 European Communist Parties in East Berlin testify, the Berlinguers, Marchaises and Carrillos of Western Europe are now willing boldly to proclaim their parties' independence, even to the face of their former Soviet mentors...

...Much the same, though not quite in such severe fashion, has also happened to the ChristianMarxist dialogue which flourished in Yugoslavia until about 1974...

...According to Levitin-Krasov, the Soviet Union has not complied with a single demand put forth by the Vatican, If, however, the Church were to take a C h r i z t i a n - l q a r x i s t Dialogue i n America LEONARD SWIDLER Christian-Marxist dialogue...

...But we also know what happened to "Communism with a Human Face...

...Should it do all in its power to aid Catholics in Communist countries but draw the line at cooperation with their governments...

...These and similar intriguing questions can be only partially answered from the experience of a recent Symposium between Christians and Marxists on the subject of "Peaceful Co-existence and the Education of Youth...

...How close is the Holy See to a "solution" in Eastern Europe...

...seems to be the motto of Casaroli's most vocal critics...

...Communists in power could mean an increase in Soviet influence in Western EurOpe and the possible erosion of liberal democratic freedoms and institutions, either at the hands of the Communists themselves (as in Czechoslovakia in 1948 and Portugal in 1974-1975) or at the hands of an ill-tempered reaction (as in Chile in 1973...

...Answering on the basis of the Rosemont Symposium, one would have to say, yes and no...

...But the Holy See considers it the most flexible way of guaranteeing that its interests are protected...

...We know from the Prague Spring of '68 that some Communists do think of Communism as including freedom and self-criticism...

...When it became Yuri, Rudi, Paul and Len, and personal friendship and trust began, true communication, real dialogue, also began...

...further, what would have been the state of Catholic freedom and self-criticism if a reactionary Vatican had succeeded in crushing Hans Kiing in 19747 Does Christian-Marxist dialogue happen now...

...For example, a superpower like the United States cannot avoid II I TOM HENEGHAN is a senior analyst /or Czechoslovakia and Poland in the research department of Radio Free Europe in Munich...

...But the Vatican felt the treaty was important enough for world peace that the Church's imprimatur had to be on it...

...Late this past October, the Vatican announced the creation of a separate bishops' conference for East Germany, a halfway step before informal papal recognition of that country...

...The "normalization" introduced after the Soviet invasion of 1968 brought to Czechoslovakia a reintroduction of the atheist campaigns of the 1950s...

...An important first step was taken...

...In 1974, the Hungarian government permitted all vacant bishoprics to be filled, and eased restrictions-on religious instruction, seminary admissions, and catechism and Bible printing...

...Like Kissinger, Casaroli has probably found out that it is easier to visit Moscow for the first time than negotiate there for the fifth...

...The resulting dilemma is most easily seen in the Vatican's relations with the Communist countries of Eastern Europe...

...But when Christians pressed the question, "Why was there not similar 'peaceful co-existence' with full right of expression and self-determination for the non-Marxists within Communist states...

...When a representative of the Holy See comes to Poland," Wyszynski commented dryly in a sermon during Poggi's visit, "it is not enough to discuss peace among nations...

...It seems most of the Marxists came wanting a socialist-capitalist meeting...

...The Holy See has always commented favorably on Kissinger's d~tente diplomacy, Willy Brandt's Ostpolitik, and disarmament negotiations such as the SALT talks, often to the dismay of these policies' opponents abroad...

...But he did not mention that his party, as each of the other nonCommunist parties in East Germany, has 52 representatives in parliament (out of about 500...

...Their success will depend partly on the policies of their governments and partly on their own ability to define, as Cardinals Wyszynski and Lekai are trying to do, the role of Catholics in a Communist society...

...They need t o grant at least the same possibility to Marxists...

...The results...

...After Wyszynski repeated the amnesty demand in two sharply worded sermons, Warsaw complied by releasing some of the sentenced strikers...

...Until recently, Edward Gierek's government had been conducting a subtle drive to undermine the Church's position in Polish society...

...To show its support for dttente, the Vatican has been active in several areas of international diplomacy...

...With the:trend toward better relations between the superpowers has come an improved climate for the Vatican and its goals...

...The Symposium (the .first major "Christian-Marxist Dialogue" in America) was held at Rosemont College, a Catholic women's college in the Philadelphia area, from January 10 to 13...

...Dialogue has its own intrinsic rules, and if they are not observed the possibility of dialogue will be destroyed...

...Commonweal: 137 Pius XII's comment about negotiating with Communists--"Why speak when there is no common language...

...Casaroli even traveled to Moscow in 1970 to add the Vatican's signature to the Nuclear-Non-Proliferation Treaty...

...As a 75th birthday present, the Polish government sent Wyszynski a bouquet of flowers and Pope Paul rejected his obligatory letter of resignation...

...In March of this year, Bishop Laszlo Lekai succeeded Mindszenty as primate of Hungary...

...Pius XII preferred the first option, whereas John XXIII and Paul VI made clear decisions for the third...

...For example, a Christian Democratic Union party member and representative to the East German parliament jumped up and in protest pointed to his party's existence as "proof of non-discrimination against non-Communists in East Germany...

...Rather, he felt, the Vatican diplomat should devote more time to the concrete issues confronting the local Church, such as building permits for new churches, religious instruction for children and job discrimination against believers...

...Ironically, the Vatican has lately been opposing in its own backyard what it seeks in Eastern Europe...

...Might other developments, such as the recent criticism of Casaroli's diplomacy or the Vatican's drive against the Italian Communists, be creating in-house barriers to closer cooperation with the Communist leaders...

...First, most of the major Communist parties of Western Europe (excepting only the Luxembourg and Portuguese parties from among those with the potential to win a share in government) have grown increasingly R. NEAL TANNAHILL teaches in the Political Science Department ot Rice University, Houston...

...Has Christian-Marxist dialogue happened...

...Of course, Vatican City is not a nuclear power and shows little interest in becoming one...

...Undeniably, the advance of the Western European CPs does stand as a specter to Western democrats...

...dealing with the other superpower, the Soviet Union, even if this means that certain issues, such as human rights, might be downplayed or ignored...

...Obviously, these anti-Communist pronouncements do not mesh well with Casarolrs discretion...

...it can never have more, or less, than 52, regardless of the number of votes it receives...

...In the face of very difficult economic and political problems, the Communists will inevitably fall short of the expectations of their most fervent supporters...

...Each began to learn more about how the other really is...

...Commonweal: 139 the need for some sort of understanding between Church and Communist State...

...Bruskov...

...Almost 90 percent of all Poles are Catholics, a fact which makes Cardinal Wyszynski one of the most powerful men in the country...

...Furthermore, critics such as the Austrian Catholic journalist Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn argue, these talks are bound to fail because the Vatican enters into the negotiations in good faith while the Communists retain their goal of destroying religion...

...With the initial barriers overcome in several countries, the emphasis of the Vatican Ostpolitik will probably shift to the local churches...

...Disappointment with d6tente has been a growing political trend in many Western countries, and it is probably not surprising that even the special brand of reconciliation the Vatican pursues has not escaped the critics' scrutiny...

...Vatican diplomats were banned from the Communist countries...

...His guiding force, Casaroli explains, is what he calls "the Roman tradition of thinking in centuries...

...Yes, there were major conferences between such Christian theologians as Karl Rahner and Johannes Metz and such Marxist theoreticians as Adam Schaff and Milan Machovec in the middle '60s, plus joint research and publications, and personal exchanges...

...Also, the Vatican lacks many of the extradiplomatic methods other nations use to influence foreign governments...

...Christian-Marxist cooperation, Pope Paul said before the parliamentary elections this summer, is "a hybrid linking of two irreconcilable worlds...

...Bishops, because of their power to ordain priests, are thus the "pillars" of Casaroli's policy, and he often spends months negotiating with local officials to find episcopal candidates acceptable to both Church and State...

...But, with his own power weakened after the price riots last June, Gierek has now turned to the Church for cooperation...

...In return, the Vatican, while mindful of the West German Cath61ics' distrust of dttente, has been making slow adjustments to postwar reality...

...independent of the Soviet Union...

...Secondly, tenure in office will serve to demythologize the CPs, dissipating the utopian aura which, in the eyes of many of their supporters, surrounds them...

...When Bishop Luigi Poggi, the Vatican's special nuntius for Poland, made a month-long visit last year, the Polish episcopate took exception to his frequent talks with government officials which ended with communiqu~ about peace, dttente and mutual respect...

...in May, he was appointed to Mindszenty's long unused seat in the College of Cardinals...

...II I the partner as possibly to be persuaded by her or him, trusting the sincerity of the partner, maintaining at least a minimally self-critical attitude, being both sufficiently identified with one's community and sufficiently free...

...4 March 1977:138 "fundamental position," he feels, "its authority would increase immediately...

...He has made the first visits, signed the first agreements, and consecrated some of the first bishops...

...Bishop Poggi visited Rumania in October and Archbishop Casaroli spent a week negotiating with the Bulgarians in November, but i[ was the simple fact that the meetings took place rather than any special agreements resulting from them wfiich made a slight improvement seem visible...

...Support for East-West dttente is a crucial and sometimes controversial element in Casaroli's approach...

...But now that Casaroli has helped to lay down the guide...

...This is where Casaroli's critics sound most like Kissinger's...

...The question arises whether, after more than a decade of dttente, this is as far as the Vatican diplomacy can get in Eastern Europe...

...Will it happen...

...As the debate over morality in foreign policy in the United States has shown, this is not always easy...

...The Holy See does not have diplomatic relations with Warsaw, but the Polish Church is certainly the most influential in Eastern Europe...

...With the ascendance and domination of younger generations of leaders, militants and electors whose psychological ties to Moscow are far weaker than those of their elder comrades who grew up politically in an age when the Soviet Union stood as a bastion against fascism, Western CPs are adopting international postures designed to advance their own domestic electoral and alliance strategies...

...Has the I I Before Catholics become hyper-critical of the Communists in the matter of freedom, they should recall their hypo-critical past wherein many of their best thinkers, e.g., Lammenais, Newman, Lagrange, DeLubac, Murray, Teilhard were silenced, or worse...

...But Yugoslavia is generally more liberal than the other Communist countries, so Casaroli can hardly expect to reach similar agreements elsewhere in Eastern Europe...

...Vatican negotiators took an active part in.tbe wrangling at the Helsinki Conference, arguing with particular emphasis for Basket Three with its sections on human rights and religious freedoms...

...and the potential for the reemergence of powerful Communist parties in Spain and Greece have given rise to alarm among Western European and American policy-makers...

...A charming man in his 60s, Casaroli occasionally gives speeches and interviews to explain his diplomatic approach...

...the persistent efforts of the French Communist party...

...In opposition, the Communists can claim the superiority of their ideas and ideology and their supporters can and often do regard Communism as a panacea for all economic, social and political ills...

...THE VATICAN'S OSTPOLITIK TOM HENEGHAN Rome's ,approach to East European Communism To critics of the Vatican's diplomacy in Eastern Europe, Archbishop Agostino Casaroli is friendly but firm...

...The champagne analogy is one of the many Casaroli uses to reply to his critics...

...Until now, Casa'roli has been working on the initial stage of the Vatican's dttente...

...East Berlin, careful not to antagonize the large West German Catholic Church, has been rather tolerant of the Catholic 10 percent of its population...

...But of course most of the real dialogue took place in the personal, individual encounters...

...Since Italy's local elections of June 1975, which gave the Communists an important boost, the Vatican has been one of the most outspoken opponents of the PCrs proposed "historic compromise...

...Most of the Christians attended the Symposium hoping to have a Christian-Marxist dialogue...

...It was co-sponsored by the Institute for International Understanding located at Rosemont College, the Institute for Peace Research (IPR) of the University of Vienna (Catholic), the International Institute for Peace (IIP) headquartered in Vienna (Marxist), Christians Associated for Relationships with Eastern Europe (CAREE,--American Christians), and the Journal ot Ecumenical Studies (JES), an inter-religious dialogue quarterly published at Temple University, Philadelphia...

...After this initial affirmation, the editorial went on to ask a crucial question about Casaroli's diplomacy...

...Hence, both sides were somewhat disappointed...

...The Marxists were mostly economists, sociologists, political scientists...

...As the Vatican's foreign minister for the past twelve years, the Archbishop has been instrumental in shifting the Church's relations with the Communist world from the hostility of the 1950s to the d~tente diplomacy of the 1970s...

...Like Kissinger, Casaroli and his d~tente diplomacy have come in for increasing criticism within the past year or two...

...Diplomatic ties were resumed in 1966 when the two sides signed an agreement guaranteeing the complete separation of Church and State...

...Vladimir Bruskov (Soviet) of the lIP and Monsignor Professor Rudolf Weiler of the IPR...

...Consequently it was inevitable that when some Christians raised basic questions about the "meaning Vatican let itself be misled by wishful thinking...

...The main objection to the archbishop's diplomacy, according to these skeptics, is its overtly diplomatic nature...

...Marxists, or rather, Communists, are not simply representatives of a world view, but also adherents of a particular political party and social and economic system...

...The differing goals were also reflected in the make-up of the delegations...

...Because of his local power base, the Polish primate is reluctant to allow the Vati~ can to become too active in its dealings with the Gierek government...

...While the potential threat of the Communist advance should not be ignored or discounted, Western democrats, particularly Western policy-makers, should not allow it to cloud their vision to the positive potential that the electoral rise and political evolution of Western Europe's Communist parties offer for the resolution of many of the continent's more pressing sociopolitical problems...

...Some skeptics disagree not so much with the need for a Vatican Ostpolitik as with its present execution...

...These rules include: being open enough to LEONARD SWIDLER, Editor o[ the Journal of Ecumenical Studies, is Pro/essor o/ Religion at Temple University...

...In the text, Belgrade accepted the Church's jurisdiction in all religious and pastoral questions, while the Vatican promised to limit Church work to those areas and discipline priests whose activities take on a political character...

...The Communist (ultimately Soviet) withdrawal of the requisite minimal freedom and selfcriticism has to a large degree led to a "withering away" of the dialogue...

...Eleven of the participants were from the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, ten from Central and Western Europe, and another thirty-five from North America...

...Is it not rendering service to the other side without a corresponding return...

...Beyond this sine qua non, the archbishop feels, the Vatican should limit itself to agreements which, if even vaguely, expand the rights of the local Church...

...This narrows the Vatican's diplomatic options considerably, especially with countries which have different views about God, man and the state...

...The East German bishops had formerly belonged to the German Bishops' Conference centered in the West, but contacts had become increasingly difficult to maintain after the Berlin Wall was built...

...Alexander Solzhenitsyn, who has denounced the West for maintaining contacts with the Soviet Union, has been equally critical of the Vatican for doing the same...

...I AMERICA'S OSTPOLITIK R. NEAL TANNAHILL The rise of Commtu~i~t parties in Western Europe The steady advance of the Italian Communist party: the rapid ascension of the Portuguese Communists...

...They could cause problems for someone like Cardinal Lekai, for whom any sort of Christian-Marxist cooperation would be a significant step forward...

...But, despite any disagreements they may have With the Cardinal, neither the Vatican nor Warsaw wants to see him go...

...only one was a philosopher...

...The Christians were mostly philosophers and theologians, or scholars with strong training and orientation toward religious and ultimate human issues...

...But even more important than these temporary problems is the larger question of where the Vatican Ostpolitik goes from here...

...is, yes, if these rules are followed...

...The banquet was marked by European-style toasts, lots of good humor and comradely singing led by Msgr...

...Henry Kissinger spoke darkly of the danger of one Western European democracy after another falling to Communism and Helmut Schmidt gravely warned the Italians about economic sanctions should Communists be allowed to enter the national government...

...Likely, experience in office will weaken the Com4 March 1977:142...

...But it can contribute to a further examination of these problems and bring them closer to a solution...

...Do people really think," the Vatican's foreign minister once asked, "that I don't notice the bitter taste of the champagne we drink to conclude another compromise7 Have they ever stopped to ~ink what the Church's position would be in those countries if the Holy See had not done what it did...

...Because of his central role in the planning and execution of the Vatican's d~tente, Casaroli is often referred to as "Pope Paul's Kissinger.'" The comparison is not limited to the two men's frequent travels or summit style of diplomacy, however...

...Mindszenty's self-imposed exile in the American Embassy in Budapest blocked the consecration of a new generation of bishops...

...The episcopate replied with an appeal to the people to work for the good of the country and a demand to the government 4. March 1977t 140 to release workers jailed for their strike activity...

...Just such a campaign seems to be on the upswing now, with reports of official chicanery against priests and believers appearing more frequently in the Western European press...

...The main organizer of the Symposium was Professor Paul Mojzes of Rosemont College, CAREE, and Managing Editor of JES, in collaboration with Dr...

...But the Vatican makes a clear distinction between countries where atheist governments already exist and countries where this can be delayed or avoided...

...In the other countries, even this is far off...

...It was a rather stunning sight (and sound) to see the two of them along with an American Catholic and the Orthodox Archbishop Vladimir (Rector of the Theological Academy in Zagorsk, USSR) around a microphone singing Russian and American songs (plus "Gaudeamus igitur"), and further joined by the whole group...

...Still, in the cracks and crevices of the public structure of prepared statements and predictable responses some beginnings of dialogue occurred...

...Vatican-Yugoslav relations are generally considered a model for the Vatican Ostpolitik...

...As every first step it was tentative, shaky, but absolutely indispensable...

...The recent reexamination has brought the first two options back into discussion and left a question mark as to the future path the Vatican Ostpolitik will take...

...If so, with what results...

...Their doubts were well expressed in an editorial which appeared last year in the West German monthly Stimmen der Zeit...

...In this view, the primary goal of the Vaticaa Ostpolitik is the preservation of Church hierarchies, since only they can guarantee the survival of the Church at the local level...

...Could there be, short of full diplomatic relations, no further concessions Casaroli can make to his negotiating partners...

...Strongly anti-Communist, these observers feel that the Vatican has been confusing the basic difference between Communism and Christianity by accepting the Eastern European governments as negotiating partners...

...Slow progress is being made in East Germany and Hungary...

...An astute politician, Wyszynski has long understood of human life and the fights and responsibilities human persons and communities need to live out that meaning," most of the Marxists showed no interest in probing them...

...there were only nonanswer responses...

...That banquet was a turning point in the dialogue, or rather, a turning point from largely non-dialogue to beginning dialogue...

...Has it happened...

...although still at a disadvantage, the Church has at least been accepted as a legitimate representative of a certain segment of these societies and allowed a limited freedom...

...In Hungary, Church-State relations began to improve after Cardinal Mindszenty left Budapest for Viennese exile in 1971...

...But there are problems in carrying on ChristianMarxist dialogue--far beyond those involved in a dialogue between Catholics and Protestants, Christians and Jews, Christians and Hindus, and the like...

...Internationally, the Vatican has a certain moral stature, but its negotiating palette holds little more than episcopal appointments, diocesan boundary changes and limited Church-State agreements...

...Elsewhere in Eastern Europe, Church-State relations are rarely as civil...

...This view's most persistent supporter is probably Poland's Stefan Cardinal Wyszynski...