Correspondence
correspondence To the Editor: My admiration for your October issue exceeds all decent bounds. I read it, literally, from cover to cover and considered my time very well spent—an uncommon...
...and only such a killing would possibly be deterred...
...Robert Taft continued to think of himself as an Old Liberal until the day he died...
...It is Professor Page who founders in self-contradiction, not I, as one discovers from a careful reading of his example, so mischievously pocked with quotation marks...
...And both retreat into fantasy...
...This was a libertarian opposition...
...It was really not until the advent of Barry Goldwater that American opponents of Big Government began to embrace the term conservative...
...This consideration may make the debate over the death penalty easier to interpret...
...In those days I.S.I...
...and disapprove of revolutions against them...
...During the period of the Roosevelt administration, the critics of the New Deal described themselves as liberals...
...Had Miss Efron actually bothered to read my books and articles, along with the books and articles of other conservatives, she might have understood this fact...
...In research methods classes, we try to fan out the spectrum of agreement to such statements, with responses running from "Complete agreement" to "Complete disagreement...
...As for Messrs...
...I clearly indicated, however, that these were not universally held views, and that the passage Professor Page cites pertained only to those who held them, in whole or in qualified form...
...The passage in Mr...
...He righteously disagrees with the abstract moral proposition that people should oppose tyranny...
...Back in 1961, students of Prof...
...They knew that the struggle to regain their alienated liberties required substantial risk of their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor...
...Both liberals and conservatives seek a reconciliation of some human freedom with the social order essential to the protection of the freedom itself...
...Robert Taft continued to think of himself as an Old Liberal until the day he died...
...Except for a certain, shall we say, exuberant...
...All the pious and disingenuous rhetoric about "freedom" in all the National Reviews ever printed cannot hide the fact: conservatives want to use the coercive power of the state to impose their own views on everybody else...
...All the pious and disingenuous rhetoric about "freedom" in all the National Reviews ever printed cannot hide the fact: conservatives want to use the coercive power of the state to impose their own views on everybody else...
...Order for tit+ 36 The Alternative: An American Spectator December 197 sake of Order—even if you are in the grip of a tyrant...
...I read it, literally, from cover to cover and considered my time very well spent—an uncommon experience for so irascible and easily bored a reader as myself...
...That is the essence of illogic...
...He then describes a killing committed in the heat of passion in a drunken brawl...
...For it is the greatest virtue of Miss Efron's essay that she shows how statist is the central thrust of conservative doctrine today...
...Hayek and Robert Nozick...
...Conservatism as a political movement in the United States does not emerge until the period after the election of FDR...
...Most of all I admired Edith Efron's "libertarian challenge" to conservatism...
...She asserts, "...American thinkers and politicians have talked piously about the inalienable individual right to liberty...
...She persists in speaking in dichotomous terms, finding essential contradictions in both the liberal and the conservative traditions...
...F. A. Hayek(who included the postscript, "Why I Am Not a Conservative," in his noted book The Constitution of Liberty, in 1960) published a journal called the New Individualist Review and regularly denounced conservatives such as Buckley and Burnham for polluting the movement...
...And Mr...
...Does "conservatism" have anything to contribute, or is it the case—as Ronald Reagan has said—that"libertarianism is the heart and soul of conservatism...
...Albert Jay Nock, that singular champion of individual liberty, was even described—much to his own chagrin—as a Tory...
...Wilson's article was, of course, a purely parenthetical aside, and criticism of it in no way reflect upon the general excellence of the article...
...Such measurement techniques assume that one's agreement or disagreement to such sweeping statements is, inherently, qualified...
...I read it, literally, from cover to cover and considered my time very well spent—an uncommon experience for so irascible and easily bored a reader as myself...
...Wallace to Gov...
...Lynch pretends I have never heard the conventional explanation of how our system works...
...So why disagree with the (non-pockmarked) proposition in the first place...
...It was a sad development...
...In those days I.S.I...
...Hayek and Robert Nozick...
...More, the drafters of our Constitution recognized that any system of civil liberties must be guarded by authorities at least equal in strength to those who might threaten the liberties...
...Such measurement techniques assume that one's agreement or disagreement to such sweeping statements is, inherently, qualified...
...I am against meddling in the private lives of individuals...
...Such a scale still permits the discrimination between the liberal and conservative temperaments, and doesn't lead to the absurdities upon which Efron has based her whole diatribe...
...He righteously disagrees with the abstract moral proposition that people should oppose tyranny...
...First-degree murder is usually defined as murder by poison, by torture, by lying in wait, or in the commission of a serious felony, such as kidnapping...
...She persists in speaking in dichotomous terms, finding essential contradictions in both the liberal and the conservative traditions...
...and only such a killing would possibly be deterred...
...Nonsense...
...It is Professor Page who founders in self-contradiction, not I, as one discovers from a careful reading of his example, so mischievously pocked with quotation marks...
...Peter P. Witonsld Stanford, California Edith Efron replies: Professor Page is only apparently correct...
...If liberals and conservatives disagree regarding some fundamental characteristics of human nature, they share the recognition, against a libertarian, that human societies involve, among other things, political problems...
...Thank you for printing the Efron article...
...The term conservative was coined, in this country, by the pro-New Deal press, and applied to those politicians who stood in opposition to the reforms of the New Deal...
...But this leap is a foreshortening of my reasoning process, not a contradiction either of my thesis or of reality...
...And Mr...
...So why disagree with the (non-pockmarked) proposition in the first place...
...More, the drafters of our Constitution recognized that any system of civil liberties must be guarded by authorities at least equal in strength to those who might threaten the liberties...
...Most Americans with a reasonable grasp 01 political realities will disagree with both state...
...She borrows many of the "test questions" from Burnham's Suicide of the West, and claims that to disagree with the statements as listed, is to place oneself in complete agreement with their opposite...
...But this leap is a foreshortening of my reasoning process, not a contradiction either of my thesis or of reality...
...It was really not until the advent of Barry Goldwater that American opponents of Big Government began to embrace the term conservative...
...Having set up her straw man, Miss Efrot waxes hysterical: "Was this what was tucker away behind these concepts of Authority, Tra dition, Order, and Duty which, somehow were never derived, defined, or illustrated' Tradition for the sake of Tradition—even i that tradition is enslaving you...
...Liberals do, too...
...Because Professor Page wants to be free to eat his liberty while having it too...
...This old debate should be reopened...
...On the other hand, Ef ron argues that they are asserting the following: "I accept dictatorships and tyrannies...
...I leave it to the reader to contemplate the implications of such "refutations...
...Albert Jay Nock, that singular champion of individual liberty, was even described—much to his own chagrin—as a Tory...
...Lynch hears the laughter of long-dead men...
...That is a minor fault, if any at all, in contrast to the statist pretensions of liberals and conservatives alike...
...It is justified by facts: the most conscious, explicit religious authoritarians, censors, and racial and religious bigots, as well as apologists for religious-military dictatorships form part of the conservative constellation...
...I am against meddling in the private lives of individuals...
...Despite her distaste for the "fusion of metaphysics and pop-sociology" which she attributes to conservatives, Miss Efron overlooks the lessons which these disciplines might teach her regarding the "libertarian challenge...
...This was a libertarian opposition...
...The passage in Mr...
...The coalition which supported Taft in 1952 was the basic opposition to the international and domestic interventionist policies of Roosevelt and his left-wing advisors...
...This statement requires an extremely tunnel-visioned reading of the Declaration of Independence...
...Thus most conservatives will state that they do not agree...
...Despite her distaste for the "fusion of metaphysics and pop-sociology" which she attributes to conservatives, Miss Efron overlooks the lessons which these disciplines might teach her regarding the "libertarian challenge...
...On the other hand, Ef ron argues that they are asserting the following: "I accept dictatorships and tyrannies...
...Thus, the death penalty would not be at all applicable to the killing Wilson describes, much less intended to deter it...
...Nonsense...
...Because Professor Page wants to be free to eat his liberty while having it too...
...As a rule, the conservative press pretends that libertarians have nothing to say—except for those economists at the University of Chicago who continue to surprise us with new proofs that laissez-faire is optimal...
...etc...
...The term conservative was coined, in this country, by the pro-New Deal press, and applied to those politicians who stood in opposition to the reforms of the New Deal...
...Both of these contradictions, however, reflect the common tension of the American political experience...
...They continued to defend liberty and the values embodied in the American orthodoxy with the same vigor they had mustered in the past...
...She does not quote Burnham's libertarian Congress and the American Tradition...
...Both play games of "let's pretend...
...During the period of the Roosevelt administration, the critics of the New Deal described themselves as liberals...
...This point has been well made by the late Frank Meyer in his book In Defense of Freedom: A Conservative Credo...
...The appellation "conservative" did not transform Roosevelt's critics into authoritarians...
...But, as an American, I gladly embrace the term, because I understand the American orthodoxy as being a liberal orthodoxy, and, like most of my fellows, I wish to conserve it...
...Conservatism as a political movement in the United States does not emerge until the period after the election of FDR...
...Both liberals and conservatives seek a reconciliation of some human freedom with the social order essential to the protection of the freedom itself...
...Most of all I admired Edith Efron's "libertarian challenge" to conservatism...
...Today, to agree flatly with this seems idiotic—when so-called "popular" movements are often more totalitarian than the "dictatorships" they seek to replace...
...Witonski and Lynch, they do not acknowledge or rebut any of my themes or arguments...
...Edward J. Lynch Durham, North Carolina To the Editor: In her essay "Conservatism: A Libertarian Challenge" (October 1975 issue of The Alternative) Miss Efron ignores the sound, classically liberal base of American conservatism, and she ignores the powerfully liberal stances articulated by such American conservatives as William Buckley, Frank Meyer, and even Russell Kirk (who has emphasized the importance of human and economic liberty in his The Conservative Mind...
...Even her own "libertarian" cause deserves better intellectual representation than this...
...But he ends up, himself, opposing two types of tyranny, in the very name of abstract moral opposition to tyranny...
...Back in 1961, students of Prof...
...but I am also against the Hobbesian nightmare world of the extreme libertarians, for I know that to be a place where life is nasty, brutish, and short, a place that never existed (save in barbarous times), and a place that I hope will never exist...
...was the Intercollegiate Society of Individualists, and libertarians like Bob Schuchman were in charge of YAF...
...Order for tit+ 36 The Alternative: An American Spectator December 197 sake of Order—even if you are in the grip of a tyrant...
...For such figures as William Buckley, Frank Meyer, and Barry Goldwater, the advocacy of conservatism did not mean that they were happy with the status quo in post-New Deal America...
...This old debate should be reopened...
...Both of these contradictions, however, reflect the common tension of the American political experience...
...Now it may be, as James Kilpatrick said recently in another journal, that libertarianism suffers from an excess of consistency...
...With the death of of Frank Chodorov and Bob Schuchman in the mid-1960s, however, the Motherhood, God, and Country crowd closed ranks...
...With the death of of Frank Chodorov and Bob Schuchman in the mid-1960s, however, the Motherhood, God, and Country crowd closed ranks...
...Except for a certain, shall we say, exuberant disregard for logical precision (as in her assault on Burn...
...Reagan's bandwagon...
...He then describes a killing committed in the heat of passion in a drunken brawl...
...etc...
...Witonski claims "knowledge" of a brutish world that he simultaneously concedes to be a product of his imagination...
...Buckley emerges from Miss Efron's pages under a cloud (she never quite manages to accuse him of being an authoritarian), and James Burnham's splendid tract, The Suicide of the West, becomes the main source of American conservative prejudice...
...Similar views can be found in Gold-water's Conscience of a Conservative and the many writings of William Buckley...
...That is a minor fault, if any at all, in contrast to the statist pretensions of liberals and conservatives alike...
...Witonski pretends I did not admire the liberty-loving aspect of conservative thought, and Mr...
...I leave it to the reader to contemplate the implications of such "refutations...
...I am against Big Government...
...She borrows many of the "test questions" from Burnham's Suicide of the West, and claims that to disagree with the statements as listed, is to place oneself in complete agreement with their opposite...
...As a rule, only first-degree murder would be punishable by death...
...Indeed, it has been so many years since "conservatives" were anywhere near enjoying political influence that we observe today the last ditch effort to change the label to "populism" and recruit the followers of Gov...
...Lexington, Virginia The Alternative: An American Spectator December 1975 37 correspondence To the Editor: My admiration for your October issue exceeds all decent bounds...
...The Alternative be praised for providing Miss Efron a forum for making that distinction so eloquently and so well...
...Both play games of "let's pretend...
...John Paul Woodley, Jr...
...Under the law of most, if not all, states, the killing Wilson describes would clearly be second-degree murder, if not manslaughter...
...I did leap deliberately to the dark underside of agestalt which is so consistently opposed to a whole battery of twenty statements safeguarding individual rights...
...If liberals and conservatives disagree regarding some fundamental characteristics of human nature, they share the recognition, against a libertarian, that human societies involve, among other things, political problems...
...It is justified by facts: the most conscious, explicit religious authoritarians, censors, and racial and religious bigots, as well as apologists for religious-military dictatorships form part of the conservative constellation...
...Libertarians do not...
...Such a scale still permits the discrimination between the liberal and conservative temperaments, and doesn't lead to the absurdities upon which Efron has based her whole diatribe...
...Having set up her straw man, Miss Efrot waxes hysterical: "Was this what was tucker away behind these concepts of Authority, Tra dition, Order, and Duty which, somehow were never derived, defined, or illustrated' Tradition for the sake of Tradition—even i that tradition is enslaving you...
...John Paul Woodley, Jr...
...Like the conservatives who had gone before them, they accepted the term conservative as a mot d'usage and went about their duties, which were the conservation of both liberty and tradition...
...Of course, Bill Rusher tells us in his New Majority Party book that we must be prepared "to compromise on the economic issues...
...Thus, the death penalty would not be at all applicable to the killing Wilson describes, much less intended to deter it...
...I could not call myself a conservative in, say, Spain or France, or any other country where the conservative tradition is predicated upon authoritarian nostrums...
...Edward J. Lynch Durham, North Carolina To the Editor: In her essay "Conservatism: A Libertarian Challenge" (October 1975 issue of The Alternative) Miss Efron ignores the sound, classically liberal base of American conservatism, and she ignores the powerfully liberal stances articulated by such American conservatives as William Buckley, Frank Meyer, and even Russell Kirk (who has emphasized the importance of human and economic liberty in his The Conservative Mind...
...Where did all of this "conservatism" come from...
...This consideration may make the debate over the death penalty easier to interpret...
...To the Editor: In James Q. Wilson's article, "Checking Our Premises on Crime" (June/July 1975 issue of The Alternative), Wilson says, "The passionate debate over the death penalty as a deterrent to murder is difficult to interpret when one remembers the murders one has actually seen...
...It both illustrates the theme of my essay and explains why I chose to present the conservative sentences as I did...
...Is the important substance of the anti-socialist, pro-civilization political philosophy to be found in the mystical writings of traditionalists, or in the critical writings of libertarians such as F.A...
...ham), her differentiation of libertarianism from conservatism was precise and to the point...
...As it is, she's purely an amateur...
...She does not quote Burnham's libertarian Congress and the American Tradition...
...Under the law of most, if not all, states, the killing Wilson describes would clearly be second-degree murder, if not manslaughter...
...As an example, take her "Liberal Sentence 5.) A popular movement or revolt against a tyranny or dictatorship is right, and deserves approval...
...Thus most conservatives will state that they do not agree...
...But he ends up, himself, opposing two types of tyranny, in the very name of abstract moral opposition to tyranny...
...I'm not sure what logic is studied these days at Harvard (where she gave this address), but most places the first things one learns is that a denial of one assertion is not tantamount to asserting its opposite...
...The point I have tried to make in my writings on the subject is that there is no conservative gestaltprinzip...
...I am against Big Government...
...Except for a certain, shall we say, exuberant disregard for logical precision (as in her assault on Burn...
...Karl O'Lessker Bloomington, Indiana To the Editor: I was very pleased to see the article by Edith Efron, "Conservatism [etc.]," in your October 1975 issue...
...Buckley emerges from Miss Efron's pages under a cloud (she never quite manages to accuse him of being an authoritarian), and James Burnham's splendid tract, The Suicide of the West, becomes the main source of American conservative prejudice...
...Anyone at the Philadelphia convention suggesting that the government be constituted on the principle "Hands Off People" would have been laughed out of the room, not because the framers did not mean their words about liberties, but because they recognized the problems involved in providing for their exercise...
...Before 1932, the term "conservatism" is rarely used in this country...
...Joe Cobb Chicago, Illinois To the Editor: Edith Efron's gee-whiz attack on "conservatism" ("Conservatism: A Libertarian Challenge," October 1975 issue of The Alternative) is fatally, fundamentally flawed...
...ments, but this possibility she claims to be im possible...
...was the Intercollegiate Society of Individualists, and libertarians like Bob Schuchman were in charge of YAF...
...Liberals do, too...
...I could not call myself a conservative in, say, Spain or France, or any other country where the conservative tradition is predicated upon authoritarian nostrums...
...They quite often used the terms Old Liberal, nineteenth-century Liberal, and classical Liberal to differentiate their position from that of FDR, who also called himself a liberal...
...She asserts, "...American thinkers and politicians have talked piously about the inalienable individual right to liberty...
...That is the essence of illogic...
...Wallace to Gov...
...And both retreat into fantasy...
...Like the conservatives who had gone before them, they accepted the term conservative as a mot d'usage and went about their duties, which were the conservation of both liberty and tradition...
...The signers of that document knew that individual liberty was not simply an inalienable right, but one which governments had alienated, repeatedly, throughout history...
...From the days of the New Deal, the Right was staunchly libertarian, in the tradition of Jefferson and Madison...
...Most Americans with a reasonable grasp 01 political realities will disagree with both state...
...I'm not sure what logic is studied these days at Harvard (where she gave this address), but most places the first things one learns is that a denial of one assertion is not tantamount to asserting its opposite...
...Only a willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing would be punishable by death, under American law...
...Witonski claims "knowledge" of a brutish world that he simultaneously concedes to be a product of his imagination...
...but I am also against the Hobbesian nightmare world of the extreme libertarians, for I know that to be a place where life is nasty, brutish, and short, a place that never existed (save in barbarous times), and a place that I hope will never exist...
...To the Editor: In James Q. Wilson's article, "Checking Our Premises on Crime" (June/July 1975 issue of The Alternative), Wilson says, "The passionate debate over the death penalty as a deterrent to murder is difficult to interpret when one remembers the murders one has actually seen...
...The signers of that document knew that individual liberty was not simply an inalienable right, but one which governments had alienated, repeatedly, throughout history...
...Of course, Bill Rusher tells us in his New Majority Party book that we must be prepared "to compromise on the economic issues...
...Most of all I admired Edith Efron's "libertarian challenge" to conservatism...
...Karl O'Lessker Bloomington, Indiana To the Editor: I was very pleased to see the article by Edith Efron, "Conservatism [etc.]," in your October 1975 issue...
...Few have ever meant a word of it...
...The coalition which supported Taft in 1952 was the basic opposition to the international and domestic interventionist policies of Roosevelt and his left-wing advisors...
...Before 1932, the term "conservatism" is rarely used in this country...
...Wilson's article was, of course, a purely parenthetical aside, and criticism of it in no way reflect upon the general excellence of the article...
...The point I have tried to make in my writings on the subject is that there is no conservative gestaltprinzip...
...Libertarians do not...
...ham), her differentiation of libertarianism from conservatism was precise and to the point...
...As for Messrs...
...Where did all of this "conservatism" come from...
...Worst of all, has the BuckleyKirk-Burnham "conservatism" achieved any victories in its twenty years of intellectual prominence...
...I clearly indicated, however, that these were not universally held views, and that the passage Professor Page cites pertained only to those who held them, in whole or in qualified form...
...I did leap deliberately to the dark underside of agestalt which is so consistently opposed to a whole battery of twenty statements safeguarding individual rights...
...Lynch pretends I have never heard the conventional explanation of how our system works...
...Indeed, it has been so many years since "conservatives" were anywhere near enjoying political influence that we observe today the last ditch effort to change the label to "populism" and recruit the followers of Gov...
...As an example, take her "Liberal Sentence 5.) A popular movement or revolt against a tyranny or dictatorship is right, and deserves approval...
...F. A. Hayek(who included the postscript, "Why I Am Not a Conservative," in his noted book The Constitution of Liberty, in 1960) published a journal called the New Individualist Review and regularly denounced conservatives such as Buckley and Burnham for polluting the movement...
...Witonski pretends I did not admire the liberty-loving aspect of conservative thought, and Mr...
...It both illustrates the theme of my essay and explains why I chose to present the conservative sentences as I did...
...From the days of the New Deal, the Right was staunchly libertarian, in the tradition of Jefferson and Madison...
...Joe Cobb Chicago, Illinois To the Editor: Edith Efron's gee-whiz attack on "conservatism" ("Conservatism: A Libertarian Challenge," October 1975 issue of The Alternative) is fatally, fundamentally flawed...
...This statement requires an extremely tunnel-visioned reading of the Declaration of Independence...
...Had Miss Efron actually bothered to read my books and articles, along with the books and articles of other conservatives, she might have understood this fact...
...Few have ever meant a word of it...
...Thank you for printing the Efron article...
...As a rule, the conservative press pretends that libertarians have nothing to say—except for those economists at the University of Chicago who continue to surprise us with new proofs that laissez-faire is optimal...
...Ellis B. Page Professor, Educational Psychology University of Connecticut Storrs, Connecticut To the Editor: Miss Efron seems to regard American political history as an account of a series of hypocrites...
...Reagan's bandwagon...
...They quite often used the terms Old Liberal, nineteenth-century Liberal, and classical Liberal to differentiate their position from that of FDR, who also called himself a liberal...
...Anyone at the Philadelphia convention suggesting that the government be constituted on the principle "Hands Off People" would have been laughed out of the room, not because the framers did not mean their words about liberties, but because they recognized the problems involved in providing for their exercise...
...First-degree murder is usually defined as murder by poison, by torture, by lying in wait, or in the commission of a serious felony, such as kidnapping...
...But, as an American, I gladly embrace the term, because I understand the American orthodoxy as being a liberal orthodoxy, and, like most of my fellows, I wish to conserve it...
...Lynch hears the laughter of long-dead men...
...As a rule, only first-degree murder would be punishable by death...
...Similar views can be found in Gold-water's Conscience of a Conservative and the many writings of William Buckley...
...It was a sad development...
...Good grief...
...Only a willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing would be punishable by death, under American law...
...I read it, literally, from cover to cover and considered my time very well spent—an uncommon experience for so irascible and easily bored a reader as myself...
...As it is, she's purely an amateur...
...In research methods classes, we try to fan out the spectrum of agreement to such statements, with responses running from "Complete agreement" to "Complete disagreement...
...Lexington, Virginia The Alternative: An American Spectator December 1975 37 correspondence To the Editor: My admiration for your October issue exceeds all decent bounds...
...Peter P. Witonsld Stanford, California Edith Efron replies: Professor Page is only apparently correct...
...The Alternative be praised for providing Miss Efron a forum for making that distinction so eloquently and so well...
...ments, but this possibility she claims to be im possible...
...Does "conservatism" have anything to contribute, or is it the case—as Ronald Reagan has said—that"libertarianism is the heart and soul of conservatism...
...Worst of all, has the BuckleyKirk-Burnham "conservatism" achieved any victories in its twenty years of intellectual prominence...
...Ellis B. Page Professor, Educational Psychology University of Connecticut Storrs, Connecticut To the Editor: Miss Efron seems to regard American political history as an account of a series of hypocrites...
...Witonski and Lynch, they do not acknowledge or rebut any of my themes or arguments...
...Today, to agree flatly with this seems idiotic—when so-called "popular" movements are often more totalitarian than the "dictatorships" they seek to replace...
...Now it may be, as James Kilpatrick said recently in another journal, that libertarianism suffers from an excess of consistency...
...and disapprove of revolutions against them...
...For it is the greatest virtue of Miss Efron's essay that she shows how statist is the central thrust of conservative doctrine today...
...Good grief...
...For such figures as William Buckley, Frank Meyer, and Barry Goldwater, the advocacy of conservatism did not mean that they were happy with the status quo in post-New Deal America...
...Is the important substance of the anti-socialist, pro-civilization political philosophy to be found in the mystical writings of traditionalists, or in the critical writings of libertarians such as F.A...
...They knew that the struggle to regain their alienated liberties required substantial risk of their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor...
...Even her own "libertarian" cause deserves better intellectual representation than this...
...The appellation "conservative" did not transform Roosevelt's critics into authoritarians...
...They continued to defend liberty and the values embodied in the American orthodoxy with the same vigor they had mustered in the past...
...This point has been well made by the late Frank Meyer in his book In Defense of Freedom: A Conservative Credo...
Vol. 9 • December 1975 • No. 3
