The Deposition Spectator

...I didn't drive much like that, but it was too good an opportunity to pass up...

...The son of Clinton's first chief of staff as governor "was killed in a tragic car accident in his senior year in high school...

...Jones's lawyers must have been looking forward to taking advantage of this...

...Things are looking a bit less innocent...

...Not sad enough, apparently, for Clinton to pass up a chance to tool around in a hot sports car...

...By adding "I remember the circumstances of that day quite well," Clinton had assured that opposing counsel would question him in the greatest detail possible...

...I was, after I went through a presidential campaign in which the far right tried to convince the American people I had committed murder, run drugs, slept in my When Clinton Clammed Up Although Clinton talked incessantly during his testimony, he was no loudmouth...

...Clinton was asked if Willey had told him that she and her husband had some large debts to pay...

...If Clinton had so little contact with her, and she was of so little importance, why did he make a point of sticking his head (and, metaphorically, his neck) out to say hello...

...Even when asked for dates and times, he responded with gratuitous information about her desperate condition...

...For this account to be true, Betty would have had to say, "When you're at Martha's Vineyard, you should pick up some things from The Black Dog...

...In addition, his glee over getting to drive a Jaguar made the story sound phony following an additional inquiry...

...Finally, if this is all Betty's doing, why is she reporting this back to Clinton...

...But because her chances of prevailing on appeal are so remote, it is unlikely that Clinton will have to testify at a trial or that his testimony will surface anyplace other than the Internet...

...She and Betty are friends...

...Likewise, at President Clinton's deposition in Jones v. Clinton, the witness's mouth seemed to operate of its own accord, running endlessly and practically biting its owner on several occasions...

...By insisting on telling a self-serving story when there was no question calling for it, Clinton called into question his own honesty...

...Clinton even testified that this was not a spontaneous act...

...With a little coaching, even a shy, nervous, reluctant witness can be prepared to speak loudly enough to be heard...

...At a deposition, the goal of a witness, especially one being deposed by the opposition, should be to give away as little information as the law requires...

...This last superfluous comment was the tip-off that Clinton has a story he wants to tell...

...This makes blaming Betty Currie seem even fishier...

...Bill Clinton seems the kind of witness who would strike fear in the hearts of opposing lawyers: he is charismatic, confident, and used to pressure situations...

...We were both really profoundly sad, and we both cared a lot about the guy and about his son, and it was a very sad day...

...him to tell his side of the story...

...Another thing that makes no sense about these stories is Betty Currie's conThe American Spectator • June 1998 49 duct...

...The lawyer engages the witness, encourages MICHAEL CRAIG is a lawyer and writer in Buffalo Grove, Illinois...

...Trying to persuade opposing counsel is a waste of time...

...Clinton was an ideal witness—for the other side...

...Ken Starr is probably getting interested in this testimony by now...

...The question was potentially open-ended, but a smart witness would have stuck with what he knew, repeating it and otherwise keeping quiet...

...Like the "hello" from the Oval Office, Clinton admits that this was not a chance event...

...This is the problem when you insist on giving the most information possible rather than the least: If there is any weakness in your story, it will eventually become obvious...

...His attorney Robert Bennett had to remind him on at least six occasions to speak up in order to be heard...

...But after saying that, Clinton launched into a speculative answer, stating four times that Willey had been through a "difficult" or "terrible" time...

...The best answers, in increasing order of importance, are "yes," "no," and "I don't remember...

...Betty the Beard Again, rather than answering "yes," "no," or "I don't know," Clinton insisted on giving his inquisitor a coherent view from his perspective...

...At the end of the questioning about Kathleen Willey, after Clinton denied that he had behaved sexually or improperly toward her, he was asked why she would Mr...

...Strangelove, the title character possesses a mechanical arm with a mind of its own—periodically choking the Doctor, for instance, or springing into a Nazi salute...

...I have never been dissuaded from my theory of a case by a witness's self-serving description of events, and I would be surprised if any lawyer ever has been...

...Worse, a chatty party witness can blow holes in his own case...

...The people I have deposed — mostly corporate directors, leveraged buyout artists, and CEOs—are used to being in control and knowing the answers...

...She came to see Betty sometime before Christmas...

...And Betty had . better have a pretty close relationship with Jordan, because he did help her...

...When was the last time he saw Monica...

...Baby, You Can Drive My Car Regarding an occasion on which Clinton (then still governor of Arkansas) had been alone in a Jaguar with the pseudonymous Ms...

...he looks good in a dark suit...

...Such instruction—understandably skipped by Bennett, who probably thought he would not have to teach the president of the United States how to speak—is routine for the simple reason that mumbling or allowing sentences to trail off are signs of lying...

...When asked about whether he was ever alone with Monica Lewinsky in the private kitchen off the Oval Office, he launched into a long, non-responsive answer about how little privacy he has in the Oval Office area...

...But depositions are like mug shots: No matter what you do, you cannot look good...

...that's what Betty said...

...I remember the circumstances of the day quite well, and so I, there would have been a trooper with me all day, so if, if I got to drive the Jaguar, which I wanted to do, then the trooper would have been either behind or just ahead of me, that's what they always did...

...I'd never driven a Jaguar before...

...Clinton also blamed Betty Currie for the possibility that he unwittingly bought Lewinsky a gift at a shop in Martha's Vineyard: "I do remember that, because when I went on vacation, Betty said that, asked me if I was going to bring back some stuff from The Black Dog, and she said Monica loved, liked that stuff and would like to have a piece of it, and I did a lot of Christmas shopping from The Black Dog, and I bought a lot of things for a lot of people, and I gave Betty a couple of the pieces, and she gave I think something to Monica and something to some of the other girls who worked in the office...

...Nothing is more disheartening for me as a lawyer than completing a deposition with the knowledge that I have not shaken my opponent's confidence...

...Although the deposition was supposed to remain confidential, portions were submitted unsealed as an exhibit in response to defendants' motions for summary judgment...

...Regarding the encounter between the two on November 29, 1993, James Fisher asked: "What, if anything, do you recall being said in that meeting...

...Saying everything at once makes it easier to spot the inconsistencies...

...Bill Clinton, surprisingly, came off as an unsophisticated witness, revealing a desire to please the opposing lawyer, and telling prepared stories that suggested he had lots to hide...

...This called for a yes-or-no answer, but Clinton used it as an opportunity to re-establish his story: "I think it was partly in the Oval Office and partly in the dining room I have in back, which is—my memory is she was quite upset, I asked her if she wanted something to drink, she said she did, we went back there...

...At a minimum, a party trying to tell his story gives the opposition a peek at his trial strategy...

...He used Betty Currie as his beard, which goes a long way toward explaining why Kenneth Stan's office has been calling Currie repeatedly to testify before the grand jury...

...Bill Clinton became rattled several times during the deposition...

...The same pattern supposedly played out between Monica Lewinsky and U.N...

...The deposition was, after all, videotaped...

...Instead, Clinton began reconstructing the incident, speculating, and throwing in self-serving details that would later make the story sound idiotic: "Well, there must have been...

...I don't know what he meant by that...

...Fisher naturally asked: "What do you remember happening on that day...

...Monica Lewinsky—that intern you barely know—would love something from there...

...Conversely, it is a moral victory, possibly presaging a legal victory, when I leave the opposing party with at least small scars on his psyche...

...Monica and Betty had better be pretty close friends if Betty—and not Clinton—approached Vernon Jordan about helping this intern in connection with her move to New York...

...Ambassador Bill Richardson...

...The question obviously called for speculation, and the proper response would have been, "I don't know...

...Fisher soon followed up by asking if the conversation occurred in the Oval Office...

...And that's consistent with my experience with the American Spectator types over the last six years, and what I was told would happen if I ran for president...

...On any excuse, they would have gotten portions admitted at trial, to show the contrast with a by-then-improved Clinton...

...Paula Jones's appeal ensures that the case will be with us for the rest of the Clinton presidency...

...They never let the opposing lawyer know what they are thinking, or even if they are thinking...

...M]y recollection is it was on that trip whenwe got back to Little Rock after going up to see him that either she said do you want to drive the Jaguar or I said can I do it...

...They never let the opposing lawyer know what they are thinking, or even if they are thinking...

...I believe that, I believe that Monica, what I know about that is I believe Monica asked Betty Currie to ask someone to talk to him, and she, and she talked to him and went to an interview with him...

...James Fisher, Paula Jones's attorney, was entitled to take Clinton's testimony under oath and, almost without exception, the president was required to answer the questions as posed...

...Betty said she was coming by and talked to her, and I said hello to her...

...I thought he had given her some advice about her move to New York...

...In addition to once again laying the blame on Betty Currie, this answer is curious because Clinton admits that Betty mentioned that he should get Monica something, and he apparently agreed...

...I think Betty suggested that he meet with her...

...Many news organizations have reproduced those portions, which constitute more than half the deposition, on the Internet...

...He wanted to bring up her involvement...

...His story was that the entire Lewinsky situation was the fault of Betty Currie, his secretary and most loyal staff member...

...Most important, as the president of the United States he can count on the presumptive respect of the average juror...

...An experienced lawyer knows how to take advantage of this...

...After saying "I don't remember that," he went on to remind plaintiff's counsel that "she was obviously agitated" and "clearly upset...

...Doe, James Fisher asked if there had been a state trooper driving ahead of them in another car...

...and he is well-educated in the law...

...Clinton also testified that Danny Ferguson, the state trooper named as codefendant in the Jones case and part of the group who contributed to the David Brock article in The American Spectator, came to him to say that the troopers had been offered money to lie...

...Repeatedly, even though the questions did not call for it, the president referred to Willey's mental state...

...With her boss accused in a civil suit of sexual harassment, why would she take such an interest in a young, female intern, using the boss's connections to help her find a job and getting her boss to give the woman gifts...

...They would have the opportunity to show him looking less like the leader of the free world and more like a Dick Tracy villain, mumbling into his tie...

...48 Jun e 1998 • The American Spectator make up such a story...

...I have taken 15o depositions in complex civil litigation, and, in nearly every one, the witness gave up damaging information, often when I was not even seeking it...

...And she was there talking to her, and I stuck my head out, said hello to her...

...How did Monica Lewinsky get advice on moving to New York from Vernon Jordan...

...This is already sounding strange...

...The story, which Clinton could have avoided telling, sounds phony...

...She is supposedly the most loyal member of Clinton's staff...

...Later in the deposition, this happened again when Clinton was asked about Jane Doe No...

...The question did not call for Clinton to involve Betty Currie in his testimony...

...The proper answer would have been, "I don't remember...

...Seems like44 Surprisingly, Clinton came off as an unsophisticated witness, telling prepared stories that suggested he had lots to hide...

...but at least this story was not full of holes...

...44 mother's bed with four prostitutes and done numerous other things, I had a high level of paranoia...

...A trial lawyer looks at this exchange and thinks the following: Betty Currie made a point of mentioning Monica Lewinsky was coming by, and Clinton made a point of saying hello...

...Never Let Them See You Sweat The best witnesses maintain a Sphinx-like outer calm...

...2. The best witnesses maintain a Sphinx-like outer calm...

...A party gains nothing by talking in a deposition, because helpful information can be provided by a sworn affidavit or at trial...

...and the more the witness talks, regardless of the content, the more he gives away...

...The last of these cuts off further inquiry without even preventing the witness from testifying at trial, because his recollection can later be refreshed by counsel...

...He was not so lucky regarding Monica Lewinsky...

...It is better to answer questions in a piecemeal fashion than to tell a story...

...Willey Had the Heebie-Jeebies For example, in his deposition testimony about Kathleen Willey, Clinton had a clear — practically transparent— agenda: paint Willey as so upset and distraught that she could have mistaken his concern for a sexual advance...

...When asked if he was ever with Monica Lewinsky in his office kitchen, he said, "on a couple of occasions...she was there but my secretary, Betty Currie, was there with her...

...This is the stuff big settlements, and big legal blunders, are made of...

...In this regard, his famous luck appears to have held...

...Lawyers to whom I described this were uniformly shocked...

...50 June 1998 • The American Spectator...

...Clinton gave a long-winded answer including, "but she was, she was very upset that day, I remember this very well, and she didn't stay long, but she was quite agitated...

...On January 17, 1998, President Clinton had the distinction of being the first sitting president to be deposed in civil litigation...

...This testimony was a fairly straightforward explanation of a series of conversations, but Clinton ended it by saying that Ferguson told him he could not recant his stories: "He said I can't do that, they'll get me if I do...