Solidarity in Exile: An Interview with Jerzy Milewski
Karatnycky, Adrian
universally shared by their democratically minded countrymen. In the statement in which he described the Church as the only reliable ally of the people, Zbigniew Janas specifically excluded the...
...An electrical engineer and specialist in laser technology, Mr...
...As the increasing flow of underground literature indicates, society has not been silenced...
...How can a country resist so much hostility...
...Because no other Africatl country grants the airline landing rights...
...176176176176176176176176176176176176176176176176176176176176176176176176176176176176176 Adrian Karamycky SOLIDARITY IN EXILE: AN INTERVIEW WITH JERZY MILEWSKI Next year in Jaruzalem...
...Without platinum, manganese, chrome, and vanadium, all those billions Caspar Weinberger has asked for and received may be of no avail...
...Q: Are you then not suggesting, perhaps rather pessimistically, that there is no possibility o f peaceful change ? Milewski: On the contrary, I believe that what has occurred is a confirmation of the" view that change is possible only through peaceful means...
...He was perceived as a patriot with whom it would be possible to strike a bargain...
...The Siec, an ad hoc association of the 17 largest workplaces in Poland, played a central role in developing a socioeconomic program for Solidarity and spearheaded the movement for decentralized worker self-management...
...With regard to economic reform, in Soli~ darity's view there were three conditions for resolving the economic crisis...
...You merely seek to occupy and control a territory...
...However, I believe that the resistance is far from crushed...
...It is clear that Poles, like all people, want bread and freedom...
...The government artificially denied us bread...
...In effect, it was the principal outlet for society's democratic tendencies and as such it was a regionally based, highly decentralized organization...
...Walesa was deeply unnerved by the whole thing...
...Milewski: I believe, without exaggeration, that developments will enable me to return to Poland within one to two years...
...What was the basis for this grand illusion ? Milewski: Well, this illusion persisted at least until October when Jaruzelski was named Party Secretary...
...If you cut off all trade, this system will collapse...
...I believe that within the next year, two at the most, we will witness the next uprising...
...It was also a month to the day that Jerzy Milewski, in the United States to attend a conference on lasers, had become an exile...
...Why, again...
...Now it is a makeshift headquarters for Solidarity International, which Mr...
...Q: The military junta's crackdown against the Polish people, and against Solidarity in particular, has been remarkably effective...
...To Peru and Bolivia...
...It is the first such instance in Poland's history...
...Because South African Airlines cannot fly over African airspace...
...Moreover, it was the authorities who consciously sought to radicalize the union and force it into a more political direction...
...Still, after the strikes in Radom and Ursus in 1976 we had to start from scratch...
...Moreover, he was a soldier and Poles like to believe in their soldiers...
...Why was this illusion so widespread...
...Not everyone in the West believes this...
...Because of the imposition of martial law, however, preconditions have been set for an organized movement of action directed against the existing system...
...Studying the timetables aboard the plane, I discover that on my return flight the stretch from Johannesburg to Zurich will take 15 hours...
...Of course, you can help things along by increasing the capacity of Western broadcasts to break through Soviet jamming...
...Q: Yet, while Jaruzelski's position may be worse than one month ago it is certainly better than it was before the introduction of the ' 'state of war...
...But the situation in which we find ourselves is immeasurably better than it was in 1957 or I971, when social resistance was reduced to zero...
...Jaruzelski's position, you see, is worse than it was one month ago...
...This sense of despair was reflected in the decline in union participation...
...Milewski: The membership was frustrated and was beginning to believe that there was no way out of our crisis...
...Aren't you laying yourself open to the charge of favoritism ?" 14 THE" AMERICAN SPECTATOR APRIL 1982...
...We knew that we were engaged in a game of poker...
...Solidarity's economic advisers calculated that we needed an additional four billion dollars in such Western aid...
...Q- Was Jaruzelska', then, unaware of the consequences of his action ? Didn't he anticipate these difficulties...
...I also don't believe Jaruzelski is capable of implementing any genuine economic reforms...
...Although we did anticipate various possible attacks against us, attacks launched by the ZOMO [the elite militarized secret police] and militia, we never expected such a widescale offensive...
...Are you not surprised at how quickly resistance has vanished...
...The number of union activists was steadily diminishing...
...The situation which now obtains cannot last for long...
...Q: When I was in Poland last April and September, I was struck by what might be characterized as the hig h regard in which GeneraI Jaruzelski was held b~ many SolL dam'ty leaders and advisers...
...But he was convinced that it was a provocation by certain elements within the leadership against J aruzelski...
...I believe that a total embargo of the Soviet bloc--grain, technology, capital, everything--would be a most useful measure...
...Any other airline makes it in 12...
...Jaruzelski has indeed been successful in pacifying the e n t i r e nation...
...Now retired, he lives as a writer and lecturer in Brookline, Massachusetts...
...They had lost hope in the possibility for change, in the possibility that the authorities would take steps to break the economic deadlock...
...Milewski has helped found in an effort to build supportfor Solidarity's cause...
...Of course, it does retain its des.-,lctive THE AMERICAN SPECTATOR APRIL 1982 13 capabilities...
...If you cut off all trade, the Soviet system will fall apart on its own...
...The government cannot do anything that is positive or co...
...It was a peaceful manifestation of the desire to be free...
...After the arrest of tens of thousands and the deaths of scores of others, any reasonable person would have concluded that t h e r e is no serise in pursuing an open form of resistance...
...In the months after August 1980, there were huge numbers of union volunteers...
...But then I pick up the in-flight magazine, the Vlieende Springbok, and read: The Republic of South Africa . . . is almost as large in area as the entire European Economic Community...
...But we also knew that there was only one way out and that the path we had to take meant walking on ice...
...therefore, some form of political amnesty will more than likely be announced in the near future...
...e r z y Milewski, "47, is the highest-ranking Solidarity official outside Poland today...
...Milewski: The government's military action had been in the works for a long time...
...It has to follow the Atlantic coastline and stop over in Madrid...
...This could only be accomplished through an opening up of the now-secret terms of trade with the Soviets...
...The prisons are now filled to capacity...
...South Africa has also 81 percent of global reserves of chrome, 75 percent of platinum, 51 percent of gold, 49 percent of vanadium, 35 percent of fluorospar, plus substantial [!] resources of diamonds, uranium, vermiculite, phosphate, zinc, titanium, antimony and lead...
...The final condition for economic recovery was an infusion of new Western economic aid to break the economic deadlock...
...Milewski: I believe he miscalculated...
...But not everyone is aware of how high the stakes are...
...not through economic incentives (given the state of the Polish economy there are none), but through increased freedoms and free economic initiative, through a sense that a better future is possible...
...And Silver...
...Q: What forms of opposition and resistance do you then foresee evolving in the near future and in the longer term ? Milewski: To begin with, we shall witness the disappearance of fear...
...In the final analysis, after all, the Army and police are composed of Poles...
...We were all quite aware that violent revolution is the worst means for changing the social structure of any society, as the Russian Revolution so well shows...
...Everyone came to general meetings...
...It was the government's actions which radicalized and polarized our movement...
...Until recently, the apartment had served as a studio for an expatriate Polish artist...
...The angel stood by with a notebook and asked: "To whom, oh Lord, will you give Tin...
...In a military operation you do not calculate sociological or economic effects...
...Johauuesburg, August 7: Had to think today of a South American joke: When the Lord created the earth, he dictated to an archangel the distribution of minerals...
...Society wanted to believe that there was someone in a. position of authority who wasn't an S.O.B...
...Do you agree with this assessment...
...The system cannot absorb such high numbers of detainees...
...Besides, Solidarity stood firmly for the peaceful transformation of the system...
...A great deal of time was required for resistance to revive and lead to the next explosion...
...The queues are lengthening...
...Why this godforsaken island...
...officers, maneuvers, chains of command...
...It did everything possible to show that the union was powerless, that its decrees would not be realized...
...In recent months, however, it was impossible to hold such meetings for lack of a quorum...
...People simply w e r e n ' t i n t e r e s t e d . They were spending more and more time in queues...
...He has been programmed like a computer: action, divisions...
...It was one month to the day that General Jaruzelski had proclaimed a "state of war" and imprisoned Jerzy Adrian Karatnycky is Research Director of the A. Philip Randolph Institute and a member of the editorial board of a new quarterly journal, Workers Under Communism...
...To Bolivia and Indonesia...
...Any such a t t e m p t would have been labeled a preparation for 12 THE AMERICAN SPECTATOR APRIL 1982 the seizing of power...
...Milewski was cheirman o f t he Solidarity section of the Polish Academy of Sciences...
...2: IVhat in your view can the IVest do to exert pressure on the Jaruzelski rep, ime ? Milewski: I believe that the West should block off the e n t i r e system and not only Poland...
...Rather, resistance has been reinforced by the government's attempt at physical pacification...
...It spends most of i t s energy increasing its front of attack...
...He likewise served as a member of the Executive Committee of the union's Gdansk Region and was a delegate to Solidarity's First National Congress, where he was elected chairman of the Program Committee...
...In the statement in which he described the Church as the only reliable ally of the people, Zbigniew Janas specifically excluded the West...
...Solidarity alone was the guarantor of such a course...
...tructive...
...If Walesa himself were pressured into making a conciliatory statement, all Poles would believe he had been drugged or forced to do so under extreme duress...
...Certainly, within Solidarity there are no signs that rapprochement is possible...
...He had always lived rather ascetically...
...Milewski's most significant role within the trade union involved his organizing of the ~iec--the Network of Leading Enterprises...
...When do you expect to return to Poland...
...Of course, the initial battle has been won by the authorities...
...It is passive resistance which will lead to the dissolution of this military-police structure...
...The Army had heretofore ~" ' ~ never betrayed the people...
...Q: One final question...
...Q0990~BQOOb0QO~ia0QOD0~D~Q0~0D00000QOQ~0Do~t0~0O00~0Dm0t~Q~Q0Q~D~ooiQQQOOOQoD~06~oQ~QQQoQt~DowQ0~Q00000~Q6o06DB600Qi000~atQQ OQ000Q0~Q0 Benno Weiser Varon WINTER IN SOUTH AFRICA: A DIARY On the whole, I'd rather be in Philadelphia...
...Today our situation is 100 percent better...
...It was incapable of exercising power...
...The will to resist has not been broken...
...It is inconceivable that Solidarity could organize a widespread partisan resistance...
...between 1976 and 1980, 4 years...
...Even the chairman of the Poznan region has publicly renounced his "recantation...
...And this is still the case...
...Milewski's friends and colleagues...
...In recent months, support for the Siec program had grown rapidly and hundreds of factories and workplaces were participating in its conferences and activities...
...The first was finding the means to motivate Poles to work...
...Q: In one of his last public statements Solidarity leader Karol Modzelewski asserted that the membership was losinR faith in the union and its leadership...
...Q: You do not, then, believe that General Jaruzelski is capable of introducing certain reforms which might lead to rapprochement with the Polish people and improve Poland's economic situation ? Milewski: I don't believe rapprochement is possible...
...Benno IVeiser Varon lived as a newspaperman in Latin America and returned there years later as Ambassador of lsrael...
...Q: Why, i f as you indicated, Solidarity anticipated some form of confrontation, were no contingency plans made for widescale passive resistance ? Milewski: Even if we had been absolutely certain that such a frontal attack was imminent, no resistance could have been properly organized...
...Until now, this would have been impossible: Had Solidarity been perceived as something akin to a paramilitary group it would have lost the support of most of its members...
...Paradoxically, Jaruzelski's crackdown has revived resistance and anger...
...What is needed is a far-sighted policy...
...We did not wish to acknowledge this destructive power...
...I remember quite well how he acted in March, after the Bydgoszcz affair in which Solidarity leader Jan ~ Rulewski was horribly beaten...
...Milewski: None of us expected so total an attack against society by the e n t i r e Army and security apparatus...
...The real struggle is over the beliefs of people, over their hearts and minds, if you will, This is a struggle the authorities cannot win...
...that even Solidarity, "our Solidarity," couldn't do anything about it...
...This is not the Nazi Occupation...
...I u flight, August 6, 1981: The flight by South African Airlines from New York to Johannesburg provides a lesson both about South A f r i c a ' s isolation and its innate s t r e n g t h . The one r e f u e l i n g stop in the long journey is Ihla de Sal in Cabo Verde...
...He is, don' t forget, a soldier...
...But if they have little bread they want more freedom...
...We do not foresee any substantial change in the attitude of the Western countries, which will not engage in any determined political or economic actions...
...So many are now in detention that younger Poles have come to regard incarceration as an expression of patriotism...
...Solidarity was not an organization created to do battle...
...It was a case of despair, not anger...
...It will be impossible to prevent a future explosion...
...Let us hope that, in charting the future direction of American policy, we do not bear out these pessimistic conclusions...
...Milewski: This was no illusion...
...But the cycles of unrest and repression have been occurring with increasing frequency--between 1956 and 1970, 14 years...
...o ~' Q: Did Walesa share in this assessment of Jaruzelski ? Milewski: Yes...
...andJaruzelski had always been rather . ~ quiet, untainted by corruption...
...We knew that productivity could be increased significantly merely by changing people's attitudes, by once again making work a positive activity...
...The I state was falling apart...
...But more import a n t , even had we envisioned suc.h a development, ours was not an organization capable of conducting a struggle against an armed adversary...
...It tried to frustrate us, and in doing so it radicalized the membership below...
...I believe that General J a r u z e l s k i can now be regarded as one of the greatest criminals in our history...
...He has written on Soviet and East European affairs for the New Republic, National Review, the New Leader, Commonweal, and other journals...
...I believe you can explain it in part as the product of a certain degree of wishful thinking...
...It does not have enough energy left for satisfying the needs of its population...
...This view was quite widespread in Solidarity...
...South Africa is a geological freak...
...Q: In September, most Solidarity offirials with whom I spoke asserted that the state was incapable o f exercising power...
...Solidarity was a mass social movement which functioned as a trade union...
...Outside, the snow blanketed the quiet street...
...that IValesa, a "moderate," had lost control of the union to the "radicals," who provoked the government into declaring a state of war...
...The government is virtually incapable of imprisoning the next level of opposition...
...The angel protested: "Aren't you going overboard with Bolivia, oh Lord...
...It would not have been seen as a defensive maneuver...
...At this moment, not a single member of Solidarity's National Commission has signed a loyalty oath...
...The second condition for economic progress was';the reform of trade with the USSR...
...They were losing their desire to participate...
...Q: Is there any merit to the view that Solidarity became an arena for a struggle between "moderates" and "radicals...
...By a quirk of nature . . . [it] control[s] the greater portion of the world's most strategic minerals . . . . [It] is by far the world's most important source of manganese, with 78 percent of global reserves and 93 percent of Free World resources...
...I met with Mr...
...Now we can only maintain and continue passive resistance...
...And it was with this in mind that we developed our initiatives for worker self-management...
...Only then do you try to figure out what comes next...
...I confess that I, too, wanted to believe that the general was a Pole and not an instrument of the Soviet Empire...
...The moral and psychoqogical pressures exerted on them will lead to the rupture of this system...
...Milewski: Your observation is correct only from a practical point of view...
...And Iron...
...between 1970 and 1976, 6 years...
...Had we been attacked by Soviet tanks, such resistance would be possible...
...Milewski in a groundfloor tenement apartment on New York's Lower East Side--a community with a substantial Polish population...
...One need not be a political scientist to understand why in a two-power world America cannot do without South Africa's minerals and what a boon it would be for the Soviet Union to shut out the United States from the main source of t h e s e minerals...
...It is generally known that the Soviet system is not economically self-sufficient...
...In light of these three conditions, I do not see any way Jaruzeiski can succeed...
...After all, it was our rank-and-file who had to stand in line for food...
...The standard of living is extremely low...
...Perhaps this time it will not be confined to Poland...
...The weak response of the West to Polish events indicates that the Poles can count only on themselves," he said...
...To Germany, France, America, and Bolivia...
...Even though it may have no basis in fact, the perception is widespread that Poland is exploited by the USSR in its trade relations...
...If they are given lots of bread they need less freedom...
...At the moment there appears to be no significant degree of overt protest or resistance...
Vol. 15 • April 1982 • No. 4
