Dialogue with an Egyptian Dove

...They need an establishment—not persons—that can give them guarantees That establishment does not exist" Similarly, Said denied that the superwealthy rulers of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf states had made any large-scale investments in Egypt, or were plan-rung any in the near future "They need guarantees," he reiterated "What would be a guarantee for them...

...IN SADAT'S CAIRO Dialogue with an Egyptian Dove BY JESSE ZEL LURIE Cairo If You walk a new blocks along the Nile from Cairo's Hilton Hotel, you arrive at the headquarters of the Arab Socialist Union (ASU) That the structure is an imposing one is not surprising since the ASU is the only legal political party m Egypt What is surprising, though, is the fact that the addiess is shared by opposition groups of the Left and Right Such "coexistence" would have been impossible under the Gamal Abdel Nasser dictatorship, and is an indication of President Anwar el-Sadat's efforts to maintain a balance both in internal and external affairs I had come to the ASU building to see one of the Leftists who works there Rifa'at Said is a leader of the Egyptian Peace Committee and an editor on a Marxist monthly published by Al Ahram, the authoritative state-owned daily (In keeping with Sadat's policies, Al A hi am also produces two conservative magazines ) Said's name had been given to me in Tel Aviv by a prominent Israeli Leftist dove, Na-tan Yelhn-Mor, one-time terrorist and head of the Stern Gang before the establishment ot the Jewish State Yelhn-Mor had met the Egyptian at a European conference of the Soviet-inspired World Peace Committee and, when he heard I was going to Cairo, suggested that I look Said up He explained "During the meeting I said to Rita'at and the other Egyptian peaceniks 'If you are in favor of a Palestinian state alongside Israel, I am with you It you want a Palestinian state in place of Israel, I am against you ' I never got a straight answer Perhaps you can do better " I was about to see The Peace Committee's offices are on the ninth floor, and when Said emerged to greet me, I was reminded of a Leftist from the old school That is, from my old school—Cornell He looked and sounded just like a Russian-born Jewish Marxist t knew in my student days who used to gather a coterie around him in Ithaca's Red and White Cafeteria and proceed to attack Stalin, Trotsky and American capitalism in an intense flow of accented English interspersed by nervous giggles But instead of the Red and White Cafeteria, whose Hungarian owner always tried to hustle you out to make room for paying customers, Said and I held our conversation in the Hilton's coffee shop, where we sat for a full hour without interruption The pretty Egyptian waitress who served us returned only once, stared respectfully at my open tape recorder and soundlessly removed Jesse Zel Lurie, the executive editoi oj Hadassah Magazine, visited Israel and Egypt last month our dirty dishes (Under Nasser, Said would have feared her reporting us to the secret police, under Sadat, the thought never seemed to cross his mind ) Our talk touched on many subjects Egyptian Jews and Karaites, the history of Nasser's nationalization programs and how they adversely affect Sadat's plans for development, the Palestinians, terrorism and the chances for peace with Israel To my question of whether there were people in the Egyptian Peace Committee who, like the antiestab-hshment doves in Israel, opposed their government's Mideast policy, Said answered No The Egyptian doves supported the official stand that Israel should withdraw to the 1967 borders and that a final set-dement had to include a solution to the Palestinian problem Said presented Yasir Arafat, chief of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), as a moderate trying to encourage a "reasonable approach" among his followers "There are many m the PLO who insist we cannot give up an inch of our land," he said, unconsciously using the very words a member of Israel's Right-wing Likud party had uttered in the Knesset "Arafat has to convince them gradually that a small Palestinian state on the West Bank and in Gaza is better than none at all " This seemed at least an implied response to Yellin-Mor's pomt, so I pressed further "Has he made public statements to this effect...

...I asked "The liberalization, how do you say it, the constitutionalization ot society " I smiled This Marxist, and Soviet sympathizer, who probably had ties to Egypt's illegal, underground Communist party, was maintaining that what the feudal rulers of the oil states wanted in Egypt was the restoration of constitutional democracy "You mean the Kuwaitis and Saudis have been investing in Beirut hotels and apartment houses because Lebanon is a democracy " "Exactly," he declared, and his hand came down on the table "No one person in Beirut can change that society An entire class must do it, and that is impossible It would mean severe struggle, a revolution " Here was an Egyptian Marxist apparently rejecting revolution, and hoping for democratization in Egypt ?free political parties, free elections, a free parliament " He even saw some small signs of such a transformation "But it is not yet sufficient," he cried "It is not sufficient for the Leftist elements It is not sufficient for the Rightist elements, it is not sufficient for the capitalists, both local and foreign " One can hardly imagine David Rockefeller or the Sheik of Qatar demanding a free parliament in Egypt before agreeing to large-scale investment in Egyptian industry Yet there may be more than a grain of truth m what Said was saying Certainly the present atmosphere in this capital is freer and more democratic than at any time in recent history My visit to Cairo as a Zionist editor and my interview in the coffee shop of the Hilton with an Egyptian Leftist were small signs of that new freedom Nonetheless, without constitutional democracy it can be eradicated overnight?should "one man change his mind...

...I asked "No, and it would be wrong for him to do so as long as the other side [Israel] is opposed to a Palestinian state A public statement now would make him vulnerable to his opposition " "Israel claims that the majority of Palestinians five in Jordan and the West Bank, and that King Hussein, not Arafat, represents them " "That's as logical as saying that the majority of Bantus live in South Africa and therefore the Vorster government represents them " Although Said's views on the Palestinians and peace with Israel paralleled those of the Sadat regime, his opinions on Egypt's economy and its plans for development through foreign assistance were iconoclastic, pragmatic and contradictory He recognized the contradictions and laughed at himself throughout the interview "Capitalists are cowards,' he stated bluntly "Always, capitalists and reactionaries are in favor of dictatorships, until the dictatorship is used against them " "You mean Nasser's nationalization of Egyptian industry''" "Yes I supported it and I will continue to support it But I am speaking of the way the capitalists think when it comes to investing in our economy What if Sadat changes his mind one day?, they ask themselves What if the next ruler, after 20 years or so, changes his mind...