A MOMENT Interview with Howard Squadron
A MOMENT INTERVIEW WITH HOWARD SQUADRON The chairman of the Presidents' Conference reflects on our collective agenda. Procedurally, how does the Presidents' Conference work? Is it difficult to...
...We've been joined by many, many other people in the country exactly because they think that flooding the Saudi desert with arms in order to recover petrodollars is really not a very good thing...
...I said, "Really...
...I said to him, "You're not really interested in what I have to say...
...It's all very well for the State Department to say, "We condemn a particular action such as the Baghdad reactor bombing because you are taking the law into your own hands," and even for the U.S...
...That was the story people were reading in Israel...
...And we have to translate to the Israelis how, within America, Israel is held up to a high standard, Israel is expected to behave better...
...And I believe it...
...I really want to tell you I'm terribly disappointed in you and Koppel...
...Both of those items are heady stuff...
...Well, we've got this fellow, Meyer Berger from Pittsburgh...
...Now, as an attorney, I represent the media...
...We were not the whole committee...
...The PLO is bound by its own constituency and its own covenant and appears not able to move on this subject...
...I don't ever disclaim it, however, because the perception translates into power...
...Those are American concepts, and the Israeli perception was totally different...
...I did not purport to speak on behalf of the Presidents...
...But the Washington Star went out of business that day and the show that night was about the Washington Star and my piece has never been aired...
...It's a heady trip, isn't it...
...Although I felt obliged to transmit those concerns to the Prime Minister, and I did, I did not want the expression of those concerns to be the subject of public debate...
...And then the Jewish Agency decided that it was going to change the policy again...
...they live with defeats...
...The American Jewish community is in fact no more monolithic than the Israeli Jewish community...
...I've been getting calls all week because Begin is coming to the U.S...
...I think that since the Jewish Agency was having meetings in Israel only two weeks later and since there had never been any official decision by the Board of Governors of the Jewish Agency, it would have been appropriate to wait for those meetings to begin and get a vote on the issue and then put it into effect...
...There are other distressing aspects as well...
...Well, I have done two things on that subject...
...Take for example the bombing of the nuclear reactor...
...He's demonstrated that in both the budget and the tax legisThe real danger is that at some point or another either the Saudis or somebody else will get access to those weapons and we will be in the middle of a war that has no visible end...
...That has its scary side, because you disc'bver that they are not so much smarter than the rest of us—and yet they have enormous power to blow us all up...
...It is, not only for the United States but with the other Western nations, a way of recovering petrodollars...
...Twenty or so of the Senators who've expressed opposition are Republicans and one has got to give Reagan credit for persuasiveness, ability to make deals and so on...
...But I have seen no indication of that, and I've spent a number of private hours with the Prime Minister in the last three months, maybe 12 hours...
...My responsibility, I felt, was to transmit the concerns but, at the same time, insofar as any official position of the Presidents' Conference was concerned, to seek and express that area of agreement that we did have, that area of agreement related to the F-16s...
...We have had some conversation in the past about the utility of open debate as a way of enhancing the credibility of the community on really central issues, where there is essential unanimity in the community...
...Take the Libyan incident...
...Well, he did say something critical in the Baltimore Sun...
...There have been recent rumors that maybe the American government is changing its view on the PLO...
...As Stu Eisenstadt used to say, anything that is newsworthy will find its way into the news...
...You're really not interested in having me because I'm the Chairman of the Presidents' Conference...
...The AJC has a Governing Council of 150 people or so, and debate is passionate, articulate, and intelligent, and we had an extraordinarily intelligent debate on this subject that lasted an entire morning...
...It gives the impression that the Jewish community cannot be very effective on the particular issue in question...
...I think that the Administration would like very much to have the package approved without an enormous conflict, for many reasons...
...The PLO is a Soviet satellite...
...The arguments that have been advanced in opposition to the proposal both by the Jewish community and more generally by members of the Senate and House, some of whom have Jewish constituencies, some of whom don't, relate as much to American interests as they do to the threat to Israeli security...
...But the question is, what does a "dissident" group have to do to establish its credentials...
...So the American Jewish Congress never took a position...
...So it could very easily have become a matter of public debate...
...Certainly that would be the most prudent thing for him to do, and the most appropriate thing...
...That's the only way to deal with political consequences...
...About two years ago, when Prime Minister Begin first suggested that the Jewish Agency might deal with this problem in terms of limiting help for Russians wanting to come to America only to first degree relatives of Russian Jews already here, the American Jewish Congress put the matter on the agenda for debate...
...So that is also an area of consensus...
...The word that they use when they describe what I have been doing is "professional...
...I did not purport to speak for the organized Jewish community...
...That is something that Israel has to take into account, in part because American support is so vitally important, and also because, as Jews, we do hold ourselves up...
...Certain things that we regard in the United States as proper procedure, as touching base, are too often regarded in Israel as merely formalities and therefore a bother...
...That is a gap in perception that has to be bridged in the interests of both the American Jewish community and Israel, because one of the great difficulties that I have discovered is that things are really perceived differently, not only in the two Jewish communities, but in the State of Israel and in the United States generally...
...It took a few days in Israel for them to understand that all over the Western world there was this front page picture of the father with his dead daughter in his arms coming out of the apartment building that had been bombed...
...Just send me some money to get to the United States...
...There's the issue of the sale of arms to Saudi Arabia, and on that issue the American Jewish community achieved a consensus even before there was any clear signal from Israel...
...It is very useful, where there is a Republican administra-ion, to have the members of the Jewish Coalition for Reagan-Bush express their view...
...the committee never had one meeting...
...So that issue doesn't bother me...
...I think that all of the Western nations including the United States are absolutely irresponsible in this respect, and that is entirely apart from Israel's security...
...I don't urge it on the community in general with respect to any other issue...
...One of your predecessors as Chairman is now serving the President as an advisor on matters Jewish, and has been quoted in the press as having counselled the Prime Minister to moderate his opposition to the AWACS...
...Clearly they are seeing me because I'm representing you...
...The press will take care of that for us...
...It's only available now...
...There are inconsistencies in the Administration position...
...No matter how the United States regarded the Beirut bombing and how it regarded the bombing of the reactor outside of Baghdad, all of the members of the Presidents' Conference agreed that deferring delivery of the F-16s had the appearance of an embargo, of punishment, that it gave the wrong message to the Arab world, gave the wrong message to Israel...
...And I consider that that comes from experience as a lawyer...
...Is that likely to be a problem...
...Israel is the threat...
...There was a time when—I suppose the phrase is, "There were giants on the earth in those days," when Stephen Wise and Abba Hillel Silver were alive and spoke for the Jewish community and were really the constant spokesmen and representatives...
...It's a temporary representational role I fill...
...But I would not expect the Presidents' Conference to even talk to that subject...
...Sutton, when asked why he robbed banks, replied simply, "Because that's where the money is...
...I have that very much in mind in my work...
...It really does not have to do with American relations with Israel...
...There have been very effective chairmen who have not been lawyers...
...But this second thing, the good will, the readiness to help, is really very moving for me...
...All the questions are the same...
...I do not subscribe to that view...
...They don't want to see the Jewish vote go back to the Democratic party, and this certainly presents that possibility...
...Some people long for the "good old days...
...But I think, as with so many other things, it could have been better handled...
...And I think that whoever measures the vote in terms of the Jewish lobby or pro-Israel lobby or whatever has got to come to the conclusion that that's a potent force that you don't easily overcome, and you don't look for a fight in the future with that kind of force if you win now, you may lose next time...
...One, I have sent a letter to the Prime Minister telling him that I think it is a divisive issue for the Jewish people because many members of the Jewish community in this country who support Israel very vigorously, very strongly, not simply financially but politically, emotionally and so on, are bound to feel, as members of Conservative or Reform congregations, that the amendment is, in effect, an Israeli rejection of who they are...
...I am amazed that the Chancellor of West Germany reaches out to have a meeting with the Chairman of the Presidents' Conference, that the Foreign Minister of France, the Foreign Secretary of Great Britain are available to the Chairman of the President's Conference, more so than to their own constituencies, to their own Jewish communities within their own countries...
...I say to audiences, after describing whatever it is or discussing whatever it is, "You know that these people are not seeing me because of my enormous intelligence and charm—not that I deny that I have enormous intelligence and charm...
...With respect to Israel, I urge it on the community in general...
...The number of people who have been converted by somebody other than an Orthodox rabbi who want to make aliyah in any year has got to be counted on the fingers of one hand, I would think...
...The sudden unilateral announcement of the change...
...And the American Jewish community, for which I am temporarily the spokesman, also has that obligation...
...You couldn't find a single leader of any Jewish group—local, national, religious, community, that would say what you wanted said, so you reached out for Meyer Berger, who is active in the Jewish community in Pittsburgh, but clearly does not have any position of leadership...
...If the Prime Minister conducts himself as I've described, as would be prudent and appropriate, it seems to me that the consequence for Israel should be not terribly significant, win or lose...
...That's the nature of American politics...
...My judgment is that when we have a fight such as, for example, the AWACS fight, it is very useful to have demonstrated to the Administration that even those people who have been critical of Israel, critical of the policies of this Prime Minister, in this case are opposed to the Administration action, stand with the rest of the community...
...I don't know anybody in the American Jewish community who does not urge that there be some autonomy agreement, imperfect as it may be, reached by Egypt, Israel, and the United States before the Sinai is returned, not because they are linked, not because anybody has any doubt that the Sinai will be returned, but because of the fear that otherwise everything will unravel afterwards like a spool of thread across the floor...
...It would seem to me that they didn't need any pressure, that the invitation was there, that one morning there would be the announcement and everybody would really have a problem dealing with the PLO after that...
...So I regard that as my obligation...
...It is, I suppose, a reflection of the perceived power and importance of the American Jewish community, a perception that has a certain core of truth but is also part myth...
...But there is an argument that can be made from the military standpoint that it's the F-15 and the Sidewinders that constitute a more immediate threat to Israel's security, and one of my fears is a compromise in which the AWACS drops but the F-15 and the Sidewinders go forward...
...For myself, I would rather that the criticisms continue to be private...
...one shot, one plane...
...Can you operate in the absence of consensus...
...I got very annoyed today with a Newsweek correspondent because he was the fourth Newsweek correspondent who called me, and I'd seen one in Israel last week and two had called me just before I left the week before and here he calls me out of the blue and begins to give me the same litany of questions all of which have within them the seductive suggestion that maybe I don't like Prime Minister Begin, or maybe I have some criticism of his behavior, or maybe I think he's doing Israel harm, or whatever...
...There is, however, one other prospect, and that is that if Israel were to say, "Look, notwithstanding the threat to our security, we have received some acceptable offsetting arrangements that guarantee us military qualitative superiority and assure us of American support in other areas that are important to us," no doubt that would take away enough of the steam so that the resolution of disapproval would not likely be adopted...
...They are always looking for it even when it doesn't exist...
...If, from time to time, it's got to engage in public debate about Israeli policy in order to establish the credibility for the big fight, the time when we all want to show that we're together, it's going to have to exercise judgment about what it says and when it says it and so on...
...The next day they sent a reporter with a camera crew and all to the meeting of the Presidents' Conference because they felt that my criticism was right, and they took a two minute piece from me about the PLO and it was going to be aired that night...
...Without HIAS...
...If military action has to be taken, some groundwork must be laid explaining why drastic action is necessary, and then, when the action is taken and casualties are caused, there should be people in place here to explain the necessity...
...I think that the Administration is determined to go forward with the whole package...
...And so I prefer that debates be conducted privately and that the Presidents' Conference speak to those issues on which we have agreement...
...And I don't know the answer to that...
...In Israel, which is a very small country and which is surrounded by states that are hostile, constantly threatening to liquidate it, where every casualty is treated with real grief, the notion that a nuclear bomb should be in the hands of Sadam Hussein in an Iraq that has never even signed a limited truce agreement with Israel was obviously out of the question...
...Israel seemed for a while to be equivocal about whether it wanted to fight about the sale, about whether it wanted a confrontation with the Reagan administration, and when the AWACS were not even part of the package yet, the American Jewish community, through the Presidents' Conference, reached consensus in opposition and continues to maintain that consensus across the board...
...You had to be made of stone not to be moved by that...
...That's a pretty strong offensive weapon, it can be used to protect yourself or to advance an aggression...
...training in restraining your own passions and, in the literal sense, in representing your client...
...Another example, and more disturbing because the Ted Koppel show, Nightline, is a fine show, and Koppel is a fine reporter: After the Beirut bombing, they called me up and they wanted me to appear on Nightline...
...The answer you get from Israelis, and I've had this conversation with Burg and with Ben Meir and others in Israel and with Agudah people such as Moshe Sherer, is that it's got symbolic significance—and I agree...
...So, I find myself on a committee of 15 people, appointed to discuss the matter in this country with the Federations, with HIAS, and so on...
...If they don't want to go to Israel, they have other resources...
...They live with that...
...I don't think that's likely...
...In the United States, that got limited coverage...
...It could not have been more evenly divided...
...The disposition is to say, "Look, it is a threat to our security and we really don't want a trade...
...But frankly, I think it's an advance, a sign of a mature community, that we have the process we do, and that we rotate our leadership positions...
...Let us take the PLO...
...I regard as the most flattering comment about my performance something that I have heard from foreign ministers and ambassadors both in the United States and Israel...
...Our position was taken by the American Jewish community when the Israelis were not yet very clear about their own position...
...it will not be an easy victory for the Administration...
...They live with victories...
...I said, "I don't know what kind of pressure you're talking about...
...Various chairmen have had different styles, and have related to divisive issues differently...
...And Dulzin said, "We have to take this stand...
...And then we took a vote on whether to support the proposal of the Prime Minister or not...
...Carrington invited me to see him when I came to London, and at the same time in a rather patronizing way made clear that he doesn't really see the Board of Deputies very much...
...And I really got quite angry with him...
...And 1 felt, as President of the American Jewish Congress, I could not take a position...
...On the Law of Return and the concessions extracted by the Agudah, when I wrote to the Prime Minister and when the American Jewish Congress made a statement in conjunction with the American Jewish Committee and the ADL, we made it as the American Jewish Congress...
...I have an almost standard statement that I make in speeches, and I do it because I believe it but also because I'm reminding myself...
...I said, "Really...
...Does that mean also with respect to such things as the "Who is a Jew...
...The fact that it hasn't happened indicates that it's not likely to happen, and pressure from the United States isn't going to make any difference because the PLO is responsive to the Soviet Union, not to the United States...
...I think that it is a repre-sentional role and I think training as a lawyer is very helpful in that role...
...He must have said something critical...
...and saying, "Listen, I know I've got refugee status under the American law...
...she said...
...That's the position I've taken...
...I am unhappy that the step has to be taken but I am persuaded that some answer has got to be given to the Russians and that in fact it is not so unreasonable to do what the Jewish Agency is doing, which is simply not referring to HIAS the people who are not first degree relatives...
...Those concerns were expressed by the constituents of many of the organizations that are in the Presidents' Conference and naturally were transmitted to me by the presidents of those organizations...
...For example, after the Beirut bombing, quite clearly there was a great deal of concern expressed about Israel causing civilian casualties of this nature, about the political consequences not having been taken into account, about the image of Israel in the United States being affected without adequate consideration...
...I said, "Listen...
...There is a second element I'm astonished by, and that is that so many people who are totally integrated into the American community, who are enormously successful in business or in the professions or in the academic world or in politics, have come forward and said to me, "If you need help to reach so-and-so, or if you need help to accomplish such-and-such, call on me...
...I would rather that we have our debates and disagreements in private...
...They can do what they want, but they will not be referred to HIAS...
...We have to translate to the American government how the Israelis see themselves—under siege, hemmed in, a small country, threatened, endangered, a large portion of the population consisting of refugees from the Holocaust or from Arab countries, really having a deep sense of insecurity...
...We have been out in front, but we've not been alone...
...The Iranian experience, the fact that there is a certain inconsistency in claiming you are putting together an alliance in that area of the world that is part of the global competition with the Communists and then having the very nation you're giving your most advanced technological weapons saying, "Hell, this is not for the Communist threat...
...Or take the Beirut bombing...
...As I said in the Jerusalem Post, if you are going to hold yourself out as a light unto the nations, you better not let your bulb go out...
...I doubt that if you polled the committee anybody would come to a conclusion much different from the one I stated, but still there never was a committee meeting...
...There were objections to the consensus from some Jewish leaders...
...Again, that adds to the bill and that means recovery of more petrodollars...
...There are people who think that Begin is a terrific Prime Minister and people who think that he's not a terrific Prime Minister...
...The Newsweek correspondent today asked, "Don't you think the United States should put some pressure on the PLO to recognize Israel's right to exist and to disclaim terrorism...
...I think they are wrong on that issue, but that is their sincere belief...
...From some of the things you said before about your perception of your role as Chairman, I infer that training as a lawyer is a useful thing...
...How come...
...Let's take the autonomy discussions...
...People know...
...There weren't any notions of "taking the law into your own hands" or waiting until somebody acts before you punish him or whatever...
...The real danger is not what will happen with the Saudi regime, the real danger is that at some point or another either the Saudis or somebody else will get access to those weapons and we will be in the middle of a war that has no visible end...
...The whole business of the influence of the religious parties in Israel and the coalition agreement that they managed to extract from Prime Minister Begin—I think there is clearly a difference of view in the American Jewish community...
...The week of the Beirut bombing within Israel the newspapers were full of what was going on in the North, full of the effect of the rocket bombardment and of the artillery bombardment and people living in shelters and maternity wings of hospitals being evacuated and people being killed...
...You're interested in a particular point of view...
...And there we could reach agreement...
...Because the AWACS is so exotic, it has been the focus of the publicity...
...And so, as you know, after the Israeli Ambassador explained the Beirut bombing to the Presidents' Conference—with a media presence that I quite consciously arranged, so that for the first time the Israeli point of view could be adequately expressed—we agreed unanimously on a telegram to the President concerning the release of the F-16s...
...To put it another way: Even though I think Jerry Falwell's proposals in almost any field you can name would be a disaster for this country if they were adopted, I think that having him express his opposition to the AWACS is useful...
...On the other side of the scales, the gain in terms of tangible significance is almost miniscule...
...And there followed some absolutely explicit signals that the Soviet Union feels it is being deceived and will not allow any increased immigration with this enormous dropout rate...
...The American Jewish community is so over-organized, it has so many leaders, that you can barely walk down the street without tripping over one...
...There is a democratic process in the Jewish community, and I think it's appropriate, and I think there should be rotation...
...The more important question is, what is the consequence for Israel...
...Who have you got...
...The definition of what's offensive and defensive depends on what's going on...
...to go along in the United Nations with a resolution that condemns Israel...
...Is it difficult to achieve consensus...
...I represent New York magazine and the New York Post and the Village Voice and many other publications and I understand the media and I understand what their job is, but still...
...There are divisions within the community, but we hardly need to emphasize them in order to make them known...
...If we lose this, it will not be only the pro-Israel lobby or only the Jewish community...
...And so you have to be involved, and you have to understand that it's your commitment that makes it possible...
...They are bound and determined to fill the Saudi desert with weapons of the most advanced kind...
...Oh, no...
...And as the Chairman of the Presidents' Conference, I have a personal obligation to try to bridge the perceptions.All of us in the American Jewish community have a very serious obligation to try to do that in both directions...
...The media are super-sensitive to the problem of Jewish community debate...
...The Israeli Jewish community in the last election clearly split 50-50...
...Second, the Administration led the American public to believe that all of the time between the first attempt to submit the proposal that was then postponed and the second attempt that was then postponed was being used to convince the Saudis to permit us some strings, to allow us somehow to retain control over the use of these weapons...
...That's right, but at this moment there aren't any objecting Jewish leaders, including the Republicans...
...That division is also reflected in the American Jewish community...
...Absolutely...
...On that kind of issue, where the question of United States support or American government reaction is really not involved, I don't have the same constraints...
...I had already spoken to him on the telephone and I did express the concerns that had been expressed to me, and I also expressed to him what I thought was happening in the Congress of the United States with American public opinion and how I thought it was an absolute requirement that Israel, when it felt that drastic military action was required, be prepared to deal with the political consequences...
...we understand the necessity for this Icind of thing," and so on...
...Do you find in this general context, given the contentiousness of the issues, a narrowing of the communal consensus...
...That is not lost on this Administration, which has as its theme the global competition with the Communists...
...The religious parties lost seats, and the rest of the electorate divided rather evenly between those who support the policies of the Begin administration and those who oppose those policies...
...I told her what restaurant I'd be at that night and she called me at that restaurant and said, "Well, we don't need you...
...But I think the symbolic significance cuts both ways...
...In other words, when we have a fight I'd like to have across the board support...
...Certain things that we regard in the United States as proper procedure are regarded in Israel as a bother...
...So, from my point of view, the process of arriving at consensus on areas of agreement is appropriate, and I do not feel the necessity to publicly express a personal point of view or to bring the Presidents' Conference around to my personal point of view...
...That's why I was somewhat surprised to see your public statement on the issue of Soviet Jews and the so-called "drop-out" problem last week...
...This was before I was Chairman of the Presidents' Conference...
...I think it is...
...You really reached out and you found somebody, didn't you...
...I want to tell you, it is a constant astonishment to me...
...The vote was 75 to 75...
...Now on the issue of neshira, I find myself in a very peculiar position...
...I'll tell you something...
...So that's a consensus, and one that I think has some influence on the Israeli leadership as well as on the American State Department and the White House...
...Take just this week as an example...
...Oh, no, no...
...There is a serious question about how the Saudis would use the weapons even if there is no radicalization of the regime...
...There are three, or four, or five current issues...
...So I reluctantly concluded that we had to do this, and I supported it, and my public statements have been to that effect...
...And I was invited to a meeting here in New York...
...I saw the Prime Minister...
...I think since the Committee of 15 never did have a meeting that references should not be made to the Committee of 15 as if it was in fact involved in the decisions...
...Are the costs of the fight going to be very high...
...Do you know that when the Afghanistan debate came up in the General Assembly, outside of the East European countries the only speaker that inscribed himself to speak in support of the Russians and actually blamed the United States for the Afghan invasion was the PLO spokesman...
...I then went to Israel...
...You really went looking...
...I think in such cases Israel ought to understand the reaction of the American Jewish community...
...That makes the most sense from their point of view...
...you're not going to get it from me, so maybe you ought to go talk to somebody else...
...I have not seen a disposition to do a deal...
...But actually to take the unilateral action of holding up the F-16s—that has an entirely different color to it...
...I think that our chances are about 50-50 in the Senate in spite of the fact that we have the votes on paper right now...
...I will get to that in a moment...
...I hadn't realized that the two positions went hand in hand...
...What they will do is recognize that the deal is one that was too hard...
...Is that a principle that you would urge on the community in general or is that a principle that applies particularly and uniquely to the Presidents' Conference...
...They are referring first degree relatives (spouses, parents, children) and they are offering the others the opportu-ntiy to go to Israel...
...I'm not happy that it has come to this but in view of the declining immigration rate and the fact that the Russians are blaming it on this, I don't really see what choice we have...
...We'll get back to you...
...After all, private does not mean secret...
...There is the issue of the F-16s and I've already described what I regard as the consensus of the community...
...I think that this is not an Israeli fight...
...For myself, I don't perceive that as a problem because, as you know, it has been my view from the beginning that public disagreement on issues is unfruitful and unconstructive...
...They are certainly perfectly capable of walking down the street to get help from another agency...
...By virtue of my being Chairman of the Presidents' Conference I discovered that I was a member of the Brussels Praesi-dium, charged with leading the fight for Soviet Jewry...
...But it seerrjs inappropriate to me for the United States to act on the basis that Willie Sutton did...
...I think he will probably simply indicate that this is a threat to Israel's security, but that the decision will be made by the Congress of the United States on many grounds...
...But I am also reminding myself that there's going to come a time, less than a year from now, when I will not hold this position and I will not have that heady experience any more...
...But first the young woman on the phone asked me some questions...
...it will be the whole coalition of forces that thinks it's a bad policy for the United States that will lose the vote and the vote will be lost closely...
...It isn't just the dealing with high level officials...
...The Presidents' Conference has pretty much limited itself to those areas where it represents the view of the American Jewish community on subjects relating to Jews abroad, whether it be Israel, Soviet Jewry, France, but only on those issues where United States government policy impacts on the position of Jews in foreign countries...
...Now, here I am sitting as a member of the Brussels Praesidium and Ted Mann is along with me at his first meeting as the Chairman of the National Conference on Soviet Jewry and we get a story not only in terms of the historical arguments but also in terms of the decrease in the emigration rate and the fact that the Israelis, the Jewish Agency people, are absolutely convinced that the Soviet Union is using the drop-outs as an excuse for clamping down on emigration...
...You mentioned the Law of Return before...
...The point is that the perception in the two places of what was really important was totally different...
...It's not a good thing to do...
...Let's take an area where there is less consensus...
...Instead, what we come up with is not only an absolute refusal by the-Saudis to go along with that—a total failure on the part of our negotiators—but in addition the Saudis are now buying replacement parts so that they don't even have to come to us for replacements for years...
...lation, and to be realistic we have to consider that there may be defections among the Republicans...
...I want to go back to the question you asked about the Prime Minister...
...I said, "That's exactly what you did...
...That war would not end with a whimper...
...What you want is somebody who is going to criticize the Prime Minister...
...I don't think, therefore, that the Prime Minister has to enter the fight in any significant way...
...What's your sense of where the AWACS issue stands...
...Therefore, in my case, at least, the process is to seek those areas where there is agreement...
...I said, "Meyer Berger from Pittsburgh...
...And they are probably also perfectly capable of calling a brother or sister or a friend in the U.S...
...That kind of approach will not be available after the vote, win or lose...
...They also feel sincerely, I think, that it is in the United States' interest to give the Saudis a feeling of firm support in order to try to prevent any radicalization of that country that would move it further in the direction of the Soviet Union...
...The Beirut bombing was mentioned in Israel, but you couldn't get the impact you got in the Western world unless you watched the Jordanian television...
...That way, it's clear that it's the voice of the community that gets expressed...
...Is it your view that there is no positive value to such debate...
...Similarly, if the American Jewish community and the rest of the coalition should prevail and the resolution of disapproval gets approved and adopted, I cannot believe that people in this Administration who are professional politicians, and the President who is a very experienced politician, will treat it personally...
...We have now demonstrated to the whole world that Sidewinder heat-seeking missiles work...
...We are much more sensitive to both sides than anybody else can be...
...From the Administration point of view, the Jewish vote in the last election went more heavily Republican than ever before...
...But until I was Chairman of the Presidents' Conference, outside of my mother, hardly anybody noticed it...
...In terms of the consequences, a number of people have expressed great concern that if we really fight this fight hard, not nasty, but hard, and lose, after having lost in 1978 on the first sale of the F- 15s, that we will have demonstrated the failure of Jewish power or the failure of the pro-Jewish lobby or something like that...
...Leon Dulzin made a trip to speak to a group of us who were part of the Committee of 15...
...controversy...
...There were others in the Presidents' Conference who said to me, "Tell the Prime Minister that we are solidly behind him...
Vol. 6 • October 1981 • No. 9
